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Proposed ANB changes draft #1 [discussion]

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    #31
    Originally posted by Wolf86PL View Post
    Pay Travis more! God dammit!
    Thanks for the sentiment, but I work for Making Fun, not Dream Primer (Adrian). :P

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      #32
      So here's my idea for jewelry crafting in ANB. Award two sets of ephemeral jewelry boxes: one regular set, and the other a learner's set or a learner's lucky set, which has xp and gold stats baked in but you can tinker with the other two.

      Comment


        #33
        Would ephemeral crafting be possible without Titan Marks? Because omfg I had enough marks during Gold for *one* craft this time. And by the time I had enought Marks for a second I was pushing TLs and didn't have any gold (I finished at 93). So, sure, lowering the costs might work but "losing" all those marks with no salvage compensation is pretty unappealing.

        Gear Drops. C.f., Titan Marks. There's a point in the 70s and 80s where you literally can't upgrade any gear because none of the epic drops are upgrades to your existing epics and you aren't seeing any (or enough) legendary set pieces to salvage to craft your way out. Ephemeral crafting with lower material costs will need to solve this. Some people may not have noticed this depending on how they leveled their skills and what class they played but I was only able to move on from this wall by gemming my remaining lvl 9 skills to 10. Bleh.

        Books of Learning: Related to above, if you can't fix crafting to boost people into the 3hr Books of Learning range then you need to fix Books of Learning drops. Playing tight and tense and smart just to get to TL 90 in Gold and being rewarded during the run with three non-set legendaries and two 10min BOL was totally disheartening.

        Medals. Whatever. I have no sensible suggestions because I think they were conceptually broken from the start and I'm shocked from a game balance perspective that they were ever considered in the first place (Yes, I have some.)

        Trial Difficulty. Honestly I enjoy the difficulty. I do not enjoy the Unlock Times because I play a warrior (queue niche complaint).

        Niche warrior TL Unlock Time Complaint: The two most challenging bosses for warriors (or at least baby warriors lacking movement speed) are back-to-back and the TL unlock time change has exacerbated this sitution. Garm, as we all know is a complete pain for everyone but perhaps especially warriors. I can literally clear Kara following Garm 3-5 minutes faster--hell, I can kill the TBD faster than I can kill the Garm 4 levels lower. Sure, some bosses should be harder/easier for different classes but this degree of difference is broken. Salt is poured into this wound by having Elban proceed Garm because movement speed is such a gating factor in outrunning a Elban's life drain (and gates your ability to stack assault debuff). During Seasons or normal play I was (mostly) accepting of this, but it felt particularly frustrating during Gold ANB when Titan Marks, viable gear upgrades, and BOL were on the line. I know other warrior were in a similar boat so it's not about the competition it's about the feeling of (not) making progress.

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          #34
          I think it would be better to just give us legendary ephemerals and L75 Cboxes for next ANB.

          We had a lot of major changes in the past year, act IV, new crafting system, L75, L77. Major changes can produce major issues.
          Personally I'd really like to have the next ANB series rolling through smoothly.

          That way devs would have less time invested in (completely) new stuff and maybe more time for older issues, as in a new jewelry crafting system for after next ANB.

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            #35
            Originally posted by hp9000 View Post

            Niche warrior TL Unlock Time Complaint: The two most challenging bosses for warriors (or at least baby warriors lacking movement speed) are back-to-back and the TL unlock time change has exacerbated this sitution. Garm, as we all know is a complete pain for everyone but perhaps especially warriors. I can literally clear Kara following Garm 3-5 minutes faster--hell, I can kill the TBD faster than I can kill the Garm 4 levels lower. Sure, some bosses should be harder/easier for different classes but this degree of difference is broken. Salt is poured into this wound by having Elban proceed Garm because movement speed is such a gating factor in outrunning a Elban's life drain (and gates your ability to stack assault debuff). During Seasons or normal play I was (mostly) accepting of this, but it felt particularly frustrating during Gold ANB when Titan Marks, viable gear upgrades, and BOL were on the line. I know other warrior were in a similar boat so it's not about the competition it's about the feeling of (not) making progress.
            I totally agree with you here! Also played a warrior and also got stuck at TL 93

            Particularly Garm is way too hard to kill compared to the other bosses. Having to use tricks to get both buffs at the same time feels wrong when all other bosses can be dealt with in a straightforward manner...

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              #36
              Originally posted by Nhat View Post
              Medals are the other goal, they boost your heroes and thus allow you to push to higher trials. I simply feel they have no place within ANB, Seasons is another thing - since that's for your existing heroes, where there are already all those gear and level advantages between new and veterans anyway...
              Medals are the main reason I compete on ANB. The celestials are nice but too risky to use when item level caps are shifting. There's no downside to opening a medal.

              Originally posted by Nhat View Post
              Would starting all players at level 70, all skills at level 10, 9x lvl 77 Ephemeral Legendary cubes and 3x level 70 Ephemeral Legendary jewelry pieces be feasible? The only thing that matters is which gear you decide to go with and how you handle your trials... Would that be "fun"? I don't know, it feels like that's what everyone is pretty much heading to anyway, all other things are simply "prep work" to get there, and are also opened to exploitation...
              I wouldn't like this. Yes it levels the playing field somewhat but it narrows down the 'game' to just two skills - efficient CL farming and high level trial pushing. Also I would find it quite boring just farming CLs for 11.5 hours in bronze knowing that nothing I find or craft will improve my gear in any way so that the game is purely farm CLs then push. For 12 hours.

              For a more extreme test of 'skill' on an even playing field give everyone perfect equipment, 2000 champion levels, level 10 abilities, choice of 3 companions and all trials unlocked. Give each player 3 attempts to clear whatever trial they like. Do not show the leaderboards to anyone until after the event so folks can't try to game anything from that.

              Actually this would be fun as an alternative event between ANB cycles. Folks who take pride in their skill can show off without complaints about whales, RNG or new vs veteran player. The equipment etc level could vary between events, eg in bronze everyone gets 250CLs and common equipment (AKA the Grey Ribbon challenge). Doesn't matter what the levels are because it's all even. Players can practise for the event by setting the CLs on their main champion and crafting appropriate equipment. The event can last a week to give everyone a chance to get their three attempts in.

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                #37
                Or as an experiment.... Charge a flat entrance fee for an event but allow NO in game purchases, medals, and only basic recipes, etc. Start at true zero. All you have to work with is your skill and whatever the game gives you. DP gets their money and whales don’t have an edge. The prizes would have to be really good, though.

                Comment


                • Ozymandius
                  Ozymandius commented
                  Editing a comment
                  +1 for level playing field

                #38
                Originally posted by Anjaeka View Post
                Or as an experiment.... Charge a flat entrance fee for an event but allow NO in game purchases, medals, and only basic recipes, etc. Start at true zero. All you have to work with is your skill and whatever the game gives you. DP gets their money and whales don’t have an edge. The prizes would have to be really good, though.
                I like everything except the only basic recipes part. Gem horders have an advantage as they can buy set recipes with gems. The bonus from epic set gear trumps level 72+ legendary non-set gear, but Level 70 emp epic set gear is laughable compared to level 72+ legendary crafted set gear.

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                • mousse
                  mousse commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Starting with zero gems take all the fun out of ANB since you cannot unlock skill slots, cannot buy companions, cannot unlock inventory space. Limiting the gems you can use during ANB would be a better solution, but then the Dev Team won't make $$$. No $$$ = stagnant game = player loss = less $$$.
                  IMO, whales are necessary for the health of the game. They provide the incentive for the DP to improve the game.

                • Anjaeka
                  Anjaeka commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Good point. Maybe the initial fee for participating could include a set number of gems and open slots. The Devs need to make money, after all. Since they’re getting rid of tickets for the events maybe “gold” could be admission fee only. I’d pay for the opportunity to have an even playing field as long as I didn’t have to make any in game purchases to compete.

                • Ozymandius
                  Ozymandius commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Agreed, I think that there should be a reasonable cap on the number of gems that can be used in an ANB, but everyone should have access to that number either through carry over from main account or in game purchase. Once you spend your allotment, no other gems can be used except for gems earned in the game itself.

                #39
                Originally posted by Nhat View Post
                Arionthe pointed out the issue that all these suggestions and changes are attempting to address, but I feel I should mention it explicitly => What is the INTENTION of ANB? What is the event meant to be providing to the players? And what "tests of skills" makes a player "worthy" for rewards?
                I always find your posts sensible in addition to providing very valuable insights to the game mechanics. So you know I hold you in high regard.

                Now I'm a realist, there is the perspective from the players re: ANB and there is the perspective from a business standpoint. For players, we want level playing field (minimize RNG, gem impact), get rid of all nagging elements (jewelry crafting, gold farming). However in my original post I already gave DP credit for being generous with the game's premium currency. It's just a fact of life that gem sink must exist in this game in order for the eco-system to be self sustaining. I see a lot of the suggestions in this thread as pie in the sky stuff (you can't limit gem spend when the primary purpose from the business standpoint is gem sink). What is realistic is for a set of parameters guiding this or any other event where high gem spend can grant you non trivial but also non overwhelming advantage vs a typical spender. That's where the balance lies. I suggest everyone to review their suggestions from this lens.

                I have some philosophical differences with developers regarding the evolution of this game, especially concerning the meta. Those I won't rehash those ad nauseam. What it boils down to is that I want to see a very wide build diversity such that there are many ways to achieve a roughly equal game efficiency. I don't mean every build needs to be perfectly balanced, just they should be within 10% of each other. This would address many of the root issues from a monetization point of view. The heavy spenders can become horders, collecting many sets of relatively equal power. While low spenders can focus on one or two builds. This is a much more desirable situation than what we have currently. There is clearly the BEST. Heavy spenders will get there fast. In order to keep the spending going, because how do you get the heavy spender to spend more when they already have the best? is to raise the cap. See the recent item level cap creep. Unfortunately this makes it much harder for the low spenders to keep up. Wider diversity is about letting the whales have outlets to spend while not necessitating the power creep so that others are always behind and have little hope of catching up (finally got my full lv70 celestial only to see lv75 come out... after salvaging most of what my lv70 celestial to get lv75 celestial, lv77 comes out.. this feels like running on a treadmill, not fun).

                I understand this is a digression from the original topic. But really the solution is to have MANY MANY sets. Who cares if those sets aren't balanced initially. They can always be adjusted later to reign in the OP stuff. But don't do balance patches that simply replaces the best from one set to another. Sell more inventory space, give whales more stuff to collect, slow down the item level creep so the majority of your playerbase can feel some forward progress.

                Ok back to ANB.

                I think Cbox that gives lv75 max gear would be a very good solution because it still allows the possibility of better from heavy gem spend (might want to scale what legendary crates give if ephemeral crafts do come with much lower costs. You want to bleed those whales so they gotta shovel over a lot to have RNG reward them with better gear). I also think ephem go from epic to legendary will be a good adjustment. Still leaving ample room for improvement (hence opportunity for whales to demonstrate their spending prowess).

                The gist is simple, give low spenders a set of baseline equipment that don't depend on rng and isn't overwhelmingly outclassed by the whales. lv75 cbox weapons and lv70 ephem legendary (although I think lv72 ephem legendary might be the right balance). Those are good but far from the best. to get the best, whales need to flash their bling. honestly, if that baseline equipment is good enough, I don't even see a need for ephemeral crafts. I'm happy to compete with my set of lv72 ephem legendary and lv75 weapons against those lv76+ fully decked whales.

                ANB needs to have multiple gem sink opportunities that grants whales appreciable but not overwhelming advantages.
                GAQO KITO REZO 1934

                Comment


                • Ozymandius
                  Ozymandius commented
                  Editing a comment
                  +1 on level 75 Celestial boxes!

                  But I disagree that whales should have any advantage at all. ANB should not be who can spend more gems.

                #40
                I’m also confused about the purpose of having “leagues” if there is no longer a ticket requirement. The awards are exactly the same in all three, just less time to play. What’s the incentive to play “gold”? Right now it’s just shorter and, as such, more expensive to compete.

                Comment


                  #41
                  Good point Arionthe , ultimately, the Game needs to make money. And while I still think the legacy of game exploits still provide unreasonable advantage to the cheaters. The legacy of gem farming carries far. Game still has so much potential.

                  At present ANB is Carousel in "Logan's Run". That core problem needs to be addressed.

                  The prior changes have largely been to address the problem with the cheaters taking the largest share of tournament winnings that then gave them otherwise unobtainable advantages to the core game. The medals also have that effect, partially mitigated by the diminishing returns.

                  I too would like to see greater diversity in gear. I'd like to see more of the PC/mobile gap closed. And I'd like to see less of a ceiling.

                  i don't mind people having slight advantage that spend as they support the game. Whether that spend is in the ad views, season passes or event boosters. Even there, the issue isn't as much competing with people that have actually spent as competing with exploited gems or exploited loot drops.

                  For improving ANB and the game in general, JIMHO, the gear cap should be completely removed. In addition, players should be able to add a level to a piece of gear. Incremental essences, gold, and whatever other inputs were needed. Yes, I'm proposing allowing players to craft that existing level 75 Malice pistol into a level 76 Malice. Then 77, 78, 79, etc.

                  To limit weapon mongering, gear would need to be modified so that any crafted piece over level 77, gets an equipped nerf if your other gear is more than 3 level below. i.e. if you added a level 78 Malice to your Stalker set load out has a piece or more below 75, then the level 78 piece proportionately nerfed to its equivalent level of lowest+3 (i.e. if wearing level 73 boots, then the level 78 Malice effectively nerfs to level 76 when equipped) Call it magical disequilibrium.

                  Honestly, if they want, just add a gem cost to the level add craftng too. I'd even say have crafting unlock higher levels just like the rare, epic, legendary, etc. if you've crafted a level 72 thru mastery, you can craft it as you base level from then on, however crafting anything above level 71, requires a gem cost, just like adding a socket.

                  I would like to see more 'tune up' crafting options to improve the gear you have. The Celestial Orb is out there but it's again so grind expensive and only works on an attribute. I'd also like to see the ability to add a level to an item. It would nice to be able to do an one or so (real time) of gameplay with boosters and gather the resources to needed to get a small tweak to your gear. Nothing earth shattering, but incremental steps to an eventual massive improvement of the gear. Today it's grind grind grind for days on end to roll the random dice at crafting.

                  Making crafting cheaper in ANB would be good, with the caveat that all crafted ANB gear reverts to it's input essences and gold at the end. Otherwise, it's just another exploit waiting to happen.

                  JIMHO, the best way to make money is to keep the players playing.

                  There is an effective ceiling on progression in place. Previously it was level 75 Celestial gear and CL2000ish. Now it's level 77 gear. Maybe it's just me, I don't care who is #1 on the leaderboard, I just look to see where I'm at and do the people around me have higher or lower CLs and higher or lower gear. That tells me how my play stacks up.




                  Comment


                  • Ozymandius
                    Ozymandius commented
                    Editing a comment
                    If the game needs to make money, the charge an entry fee for each ANB event and give all players the same amount of gems and gold to start the event, with 100% level crafting mastery and access to recipes.

                  #42
                  Originally posted by Fish knife View Post

                  On Friday I was at TL 90 with two hours left on the clock. After the announcement that we'd get two extra hours I decided to spend a lot of time farming TL 80 for XP, materials and gear. By the time I realized that we wouldn't get those two additional hours after all it was too late. I ended up running out of time at TL 93, although TL 100 and Top 100 should have been doable for me.

                  I feel that I just wasted a lot of gems for nothing. Adrian (Developer) any plans/ideas for rectifying this situation?
                  ^This^
                  Ended the fcuking gold at TL85 waiting for 2 hours. Still waiting...

                  Spent insane amount of gems (by my standards).

                  If you could make an announcement that 2 hours were being added, you could have made another one that they won't be added.

                  Comment


                    #43
                    Originally posted by Travis | Support Mgr. View Post
                    Thanks for the sentiment, but I work for Making Fun, not Dream Primer (Adrian). :P
                    You should sue DP for mental harassment

                    Comment


                      #44
                      Originally posted by Travis | Support Mgr. View Post
                      Thanks for the sentiment, but I work for Making Fun, not Dream Primer (Adrian). :P
                      I can confirm this, Travis is definitely not working for Dream Primer, as he needs to state once every 5 posts.
                      We are mere game developers. We are also very busy, so Travis, can you create a separate thread in off-topic where politics and intricacies of who's the publisher and who's the developer are discussed? I'd rather focus on game related feedback. Thanks!

                      Comment


                        #45
                        Originally posted by Adrian (Developer) View Post

                        I can confirm this, Travis is definitely not working for Dream Primer, as he needs to state once every 5 posts.
                        We are mere game developers. We are also very busy, so Travis, can you create a separate thread in off-topic where politics and intricacies of who's the publisher and who's the developer are discussed? I'd rather focus on game related feedback. Thanks!
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