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  • Ozymandius
    replied
    Originally posted by Jose Sarmento View Post
    - I would not "separate" the leagues going into an ANB. I would instead do something like this:

    1) keep existing reward structure, make Epic item cubes NOT ephemeral. these are great to keep for starting players and completely meaningless after you have a more established character. Make the last two Epic cubes Legendary (level 70) instead.
    2) at the end of the event:
    - reward players that did not go beyond Trial 70 with a Medal of Fortitude (Armor) and a Medal of Tenacity (Vitality)
    - reward players that passed Trial 70 but did not reach Trial 90 with and an extra 20 Glory and an extra Legendary cube
    - reward players that passed Trial 90 but did not reach Trial 110 with a Medal of Knowledge and 3 extra Jewelry Crafting Cubes

    All those that passed T110 and got their second Celestial Transform get ranked together as they have until now.

    So basically you add "consolation prizes" to those that don't manage the two CTs. Those prizes are quite desirable for anyone starting out, and quite irrelevant for anyone already experienced.
    Jose Sarmento +1 to your idea of making the Epic cube items in an ANB not ephemeral. That would give something valuable to new, lower-level players that essentially has no competitive value outside of an ANB event. However, it would allow new players to try out some gear sets that can only be purchased with Glory, which is a major bottleneck for a new player. I also support your idea of giving some rewards to new players who are unable to reach the CT rewards.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jose Sarmento
    replied
    I was driving home and realizing I have quite a bit to say on this matter... hopefully before the thread gets swarmed with responses, as it inevitably will given the "hotness" of the subject.

    - I wholeheartedly agree with LodWig et. al. that *input method* is the most important distinctive factor. While there are some extra benefits to PC gameplay - field of vision and Frost Beam / Vortex interaction, most of all - the biggest difference by far is being able to type "123" rather than draw "< > ^ V". An emulator with AutoHotKey or whatever macros binding "123" to drawing the runes behaves like a phone; a phone with actual keyboard and mouse connected behaves like a PC.

    - Also completely agree with being able to rank on both "input methods" each Season. Teebs is right to praise the importance of cross-platform play. And flexibility of choice is good. I can see it being hard to predict at Season start whether you'll have time to play enough on your PC or have upcoming travels etc. and must go with mobile. Shouldn't have to worry about that, so Adrian (Developer) 's idea makes total sense.

    For ANBs, if you record any gameplay using the Keyboard and Mouse input method, to me, you're on the PC leaderboard. If you have access to that setup during the event, you also have access to it for pushing. Beware this shouldn't just be measured on recorded (online) Trials. Some internal client-side flag is required.

    - I agree with Romme and Hegemony that the ANB league split is unnecessary - though not for the reasons Romme cites. Yes, we see lots of new players go on Discord for game knowledge (which we "veterans" are generally happy to provide) and do well in their first ANBs. They soon progress to become veterans, and pay it forward onto newer players - my perception is that Arhi is one good example of this.
    But "the Arhis" are the tip of the iceberg. Many more players exist who do NOT go on Discord, or here on the forums.

    Some time back I introduced a colleague to the game. He had a blast and was getting addicted. When I looked at his progress three weeks later, he was happily fighting Story Mode Legendary - had not even allocated one single Champion Point, crafted any jewelry.

    Of course, one could say, the knowledge is there for those who make the effort. That's great. For me one of the most satisfying aspects of Eternium is learning, *mastering* this knowledge and reaping the benefits in the ANBs and Trials that I fight.

    But it shouldn't be required to go for that knowledge from ANB #1. And until you do, the game *can* feel quite a bit overwhelming with all that it exposes you to, and the ANBs can appear quite difficult (and unrewarding).

    - It also seems unfair that you would "lock" the leagues based on main account heroes Trial completion. I recently started an account for my oldest son (5 yo), and played an ANB for him to make his Warrior. So of course that one has Trial 120-something unlocked. So if he wants to "evolve" and start playing the events himself he would be locked to the Master league already? Doesn't make sense, or is required.

    - I would not "separate" the leagues going into an ANB. I would instead do something like this:

    1) keep existing reward structure, make Epic item cubes NOT ephemeral. these are great to keep for starting players and completely meaningless after you have a more established character. Make the last two Epic cubes Legendary (level 70) instead.
    2) at the end of the event:
    - reward players that did not go beyond Trial 70 with a Medal of Fortitude (Armor) and a Medal of Tenacity (Vitality)
    - reward players that passed Trial 70 but did not reach Trial 90 with and an extra 20 Glory and an extra Legendary cube
    - reward players that passed Trial 90 but did not reach Trial 110 with a Medal of Knowledge and 3 extra Jewelry Crafting Cubes

    All those that passed T110 and got their second Celestial Transform get ranked together as they have until now.

    So basically you add "consolation prizes" to those that don't manage the two CTs. Those prizes are quite desirable for anyone starting out, and quite irrelevant for anyone already experienced.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ozymandius
    commented on 's reply
    papa jim Not sure why a mobile player would jump ship to play on PC if they wanted to compete on the mobile game leaderboard. Are you suggesting that they could not play mobile at home? My mobile devices are portable and work anywhere there is a WIFI or cellular connection, at home, in the car, or on a plane, in a box with a fox or while riding on a train. My understanding is that mobile players play on mobile by choice. If a player wants to compete on the mobile leaderboard, they would simply chose not to play on PC for that event. Dual platform players could still compete on the regular leaderboard.
    Last edited by Ozymandius; 10-27-2021, 12:57 AM. Reason: typo

  • papa jim
    commented on 's reply
    Doesn't work for anyone who plays pc at home and mobile when traveling. Leveling on pc then pushing on mobile would put you on the pc leaderboard defeating the purpose of splitting.

  • Ozymandius
    replied
    I agree with the players who argue that splitting new players from veteran players is completely unnecessary. If you want to "level the playing field" for ANBs, you should just create a firewall between main accounts and ANB heroes so that, aside from a one-time capped transfer of gems (say 5k) at the beginning of the event, nothing is transferrable from the main account into the ANB event including medals or daily quest awards and allow every ANB hero to have equal access to all crafting recipes and crafting mastery during an ANB. Then you can pit all players on a direct skill vs. skill level without any advantages (e.g., medals) or handicaps (e.g., lack of access to recipes). I am sure that I represent the majority of veteran players who are confident enough in their game skills and strategies to compete with new players on a level playing field during an ANB event.

    I also agree that there should be a separate leaderboard for those who chose to go "all in" on mobile game play. However, the concept that the top trial completed on a mobile device gets registered on the mobile leaderboard totally defeats the purpose of separating the leaderboards! Since many players would just use PC play to bypass the most difficult trials and then play the easier trial on mobile to get on the mobile leaderboard. Using that rule, a player could play all but the last 10 minutes of an event on PC, then after defeating Garm, switch over to register a win against Kara on the mobile leaderboard. Lame! It makes the separate leaderboard concept completely meaningless! My rule would be: "if you run even one trial on a PC, then you will be placed on the PC leaderboard for the duration of that event." The mobile leaderboard would only be for players who complete the entire event on mobile. Simple, straightforward, no exceptions!!!

    I do not see the need to tweak the reward structure for any ANB or Season event. Mobile would essentially represent a separate division of player with their own leaderboards not unlike how Warrior and BH have separate leaderboards now. We can still compare progress on a global leaderboard while allowing mobile players to compete in their own division.

    Also, reset trial progressions, so that no player goes into the event with higher trials already opened.
    Last edited by Ozymandius; 10-27-2021, 01:04 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • UmbraDei
    replied
    As laffcarl already mentioned: we already saw before that you can attach keyboards and mouses to tablets (and even that some emulators work perfectly fine with emulating the game and allowing the use of a keyboard as input for the game), so please don't split on platform but split on input method. Otherwise you are just introducing a new class of exploits right from the start.



    Secondly,
    with regards to still allowing cross-platform play: one option would be that people choose their input method at the start (i.e. touch or keyboard+mouse), regardless of which device they play on, and it only gets enforced for unlocking and ranking trials beyond a certain point, e.g. TL110 for the second CT (or 103 as being the XP cap, or 120 for being the legendary drops cap).
    That allows players like me to still on Fridays start the event on their phone because they're not home yet to play on PC, do a few story levels and start cooking their skills, and in the following days play whenever is convenient on either mobile or PC. Then, near the end of the event, competitive play is limited to the input method of choice once you start pushing to trials beyond the soft cap.

    This keeps the fantastic flexibility we have with this game, but still enforces that competitive ranking on the leaderboards happens fairly and is locked to your input method of choice.



    Thirdly:
    For Seasons, please reset the unlocked trials each season, otherwise we have these completely ridiculous situations of people just doing 1 push attempt the last day and for the rest not playing at all the entire season because they have previously already unlocked all the way until their natural wall.
    Last edited by UmbraDei; 10-26-2021, 08:24 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • laffcarl
    commented on 's reply
    Then you got your T&D dudes using a Mouse, or a PC tablet just using T&D is penalised. Its a tough call

  • LodWig
    commented on 's reply
    That’s why I used “K&M” vs “T&D” instead of PC/mobile. And, I think it’s more easy to detect that a keyboard was used than to detect that the actual hardware used is a PC or a mobile.

  • laffcarl
    replied
    What about the touchscreen mobiles and tablets with separate keyboards and mouse attached? surely using them puts those guys in the pc league? or is that undetectable?

    Leave a comment:


  • Romme
    commented on 's reply
    But the current way makes arena better :troll:

  • Romme
    commented on 's reply
    Ah I just count all 3 classes as 1 in my head. Regardless 6x the leaderboards..

  • Arawn
    replied
    Originally posted by Adrian (Developer);n205104
    [B
    Mobile vs PC[/B]

    Another well known source of unfairness is the difference in efficiency between playing on a mobile device and playing on a PC using a mouse and keyboard. Players using a mouse and keyboard can cast their abilities quicker and more precisely. The obvious solution is to use separate leaderboards for players using solely the mobile touch interface and players using a keyboard and mouse.
    Get rid of the global cool down and give us our AR back.

    With separate LB there is no reason for the global cooldown anymore.

    And as Jose Sarmento pointed out in his post giving us our AR (roll back alacrity nerfs) is an easy way to make the game playable again. I have played for over four years and the gradual reduction of our AR is the single worst modification in this game. I want to be able to actually play the game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Teebs
    commented on 's reply
    Romme , that would be 6 different leadboards per class - so 18 leaderboards total per ANB event.

    That seems like making WAY more work (for the Devs checking the LB) than is necessary.

  • LodWig
    replied
    Originally posted by Adrian (Developer) View Post
    • Due to the shared event stash you won’t be able to create a new event hero and choose a different platform during the same event
    I understand this as meaning
    once you chose a platform, you won't be able to switch, even by creating a new hero
    and not
    you won't be able to create a new hero
    Right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Romme
    commented on 's reply
    And if there are 3 different leagues and mobile and pc leaderboard for each that is 6 different leaderboards for 1 event
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