Eternium Next Generation

[ANewBug]

Does what you said have anything to do with eternium?
Look at what you all said before, what did you do, what did you accomplish, what did you deliver?80% of the plans are farts! ! ! If you still want us to have hope in you, please start your work, do more work and fart less. thanks

[Zealot]

Well, good luck then! Fingers crossed for the DP team to truly deliver so that Eternium gets to keep its title of the best RPG on mobile devices for the next ten years and beyond.

Honestly, people seem to forget how much Eternium has already grown in the past ten years - The Gauntlet, Act III, Bounty Hunter, Trials of Valor, Home town, Act IV, crafting, quests, UI overhaul (countless times). This is only scratching the surface. There were quiet months before - just let them do their thing.

[Tolimar]

Sorry, but “no longer supported” is the death knell for Eternium. Continued development on the Marmalade platform is akin to an Undertaker constantly applying cosmetics to a corpse that is long past optimal viewing. The end result is mummification, an analogy I have used before when discussing the state of development of Eternium. So the long list of suggestions I and many other players have posted for the development of Eternium as we currently know it WILL NOT HAPPEN! Some of them may be incorporated in the next incarnation of Eternium, but nothing more than ineffectual CPR will continue to be applied to the game as we know it. We need to accept it, get over it, and move on. Making Fun can only consider options that will produce a viable business model. A “Free-to-Play” game is a loss leader that a company like Making Fun cannot afford. They must keep as much of the current player base as possible, a powerful incentive to rapid and visible development of “Eternium 2”. They must also attract new players, a component critical to the survival of any future iteration of Eternium. Another option may be to cease development and updates altogether, should a profitable solution not appear to be forthcoming to the number crunchers at Making Fun. To survive, Eternium must evolve into a sustainable “Pay-to-Play” model. Those who take pride in playing for free are, in reality, preying upon those of us that pay far more than we should to keep Eternium alive. There should at least be a monthly membership or subscription fee to play. In return, should it prove profitable and sustainable to Making Fun, we should expect a game that is as rich and detailed and fun as Eternium still is, even in its death throes.

Sadly, there will always be cheaters and exploiters. The game, to them, is somehow gaming the game. Hackers chasing developers chasing hackers etc. etc. etc. is an inevitable problem that will never be solved. There will always be a small percentage of cheaters in any endeavor. The majority of us that play fairly and honestly because we value the sense of accomplishment of earning something rather than stealing it will always feel some level of frustration toward those that seem to get away with such behavior. As a pay to play, honest player, I am proud to compete against other such players. You can tell who they are by reading their posts in the forums. Long time players who time and again come forward to help and guide and support those who need it. I can count on one hand a select group of Veteran players that I always see posting and commenting in the forums. Travis is also part of that select group. I once again humbly thank you all.

Looking forward to the next ANB (Bronze #16, I think?). BTW, IMHO, Diablo Immortal is a slick, beautiful game designed for seriously deep-pocket players. I would rather put my money into Eternium in the hopes of its continued development and success. Peace.

As Rocky Horror was mentioned, I must add RIP Meat Loaf, you were the greatest!

[Arin]

Nice, may I ask your toon name?

[Tolimar]

Tolimar, Mage, 2017, deceased, deleted as a bitter disappointment.
Farwalker, Stalker BH, retired, ultimately defeated by Trial 129 (curse you, Garm!).
Farstrider, current Havoc/Demo BH, still adventuring…
Tolimar, Havoc/Demo BH, fresh recruit from most recent ANB, gold and materials farming duties, promising young fellow!

[Kristoff]

Do you know that I even receive communications from people who offer to help me hack the game? I've reported at least one of these to Travis, but as far as I know, that individual is still active on the forums where I encountered them.

[Wispy 2.0]

Meanwhile back in 2017....

[StGeorge688]

I was just thinking of that a few days ago. Has it been that long?

[King Krakatau]

I started playing in 2015 and in my review, stated that I was excited for the PvP/Co-op update that was in the works. June of 2022, and here we are still talking about multiplayer. Pathetic.

[Tolimar]

I have been online doing some research this past day on Making Fun, Eternium, Activision Blizzard, and Diablo Immortal, in the main, and some general side topics such as RPGs in general, and business demographics of online gaming companies, including MF and AB.

To say that my results have been grim would be a gross understatement. I have no education or degrees in Business, so anything I post should be taken with a bag of rock salt. If I am wrong or if anyone can provide corrections or clarifications, please do so. I will only post a few of the many tidbits I have found, because I am tired of tapping out my usual long-winded posts.

First and foremost, we need some real answers from Making Fun about the future of Eternium. I said Eternium was in its death throes. That was optimistic. Eternium is on life support and the plug could be pulled at any time. Please tell me I am wrong, somebody.

Number of employees: Making Fun, 19; AB 9,800-9,900. Travis is indeed a big deal at MF, his photo shows up as one of the top 4 employess, along with John Welch and 2 others. Looks like Executive status to me.

Number of Downloads: Eternium, 10,000,000 since launch (2015), 100,000 in April 2022; Diablo Immortal, 10,000,000 since launch (June 1, 2022, 10 days ago). Estimated cost to play DI to end game has been estimated at $110,000. No number found for Eternium, but with enough grinding, farming, and time, I believe that one could develop a high level/leaderboard character under Eternium’s “Free to Play” slogan. But where does the funding come from to develop and support such a game? Please correct, clarify and embellish anything I post.

Number of games produced: MF, 3; AB, Couldn’t keep count, at least dozens…

One last point: Having given DI a look over a couple days, I can say that a lot of what is going on in DI was, shall we say, modelled after Eternium, especially the in game currency system. However, it appears that one must Pay to Play to make any significant advancement in DI, even at lower levels.

What can we do to help Eternium survive? What is really going on behind the curtain, John Welch? Some real answers please!

[Tolimar]

There is another curtain behind the curtain. Nobody appears to be home at Dream Primer dreamprimer.com

Another site listing game developers shows Dream Primer, in its 23 year existence, has developed one game, Mage and Minions/Eternium, released in 2014. Travis says DP is still here and still developing. If Travis says it is so, I believe it.

So, when is Bronze #16 ANB happening? I managed to craft two 77s during War Supplies that I need for my Main, I need those two CTs. Don’t even ask how many days I spent crafting, farming, crafting, farming… I only need one more item after this to have my Havoc/Demo BH fully CTd, and that is… wait for it… surprise surprise surprise, a BoM! I managed to eke out a 74 with Heatseekers bonus, but I won’t CT that. It took me days of crafting just BoMs to crank that one out. I should be able to get my 77 with Heatseekers during upcoming Bronze.

[Kristoff]

I've gotten pretty far on DI in just a short time, and what I've spent is a tiny fraction compared to what I've paid and continue to pay to support Eternium.

And if I'd chosen not to pay for DI, I don't think it would have made that big a difference in the speed of my character's advancement, at least in my opinion.

After a bit of exploration, you figure out how to level up fairly quickly, even on the cheap. One difference is that in DI, you can make friends with other players who can help give you a boost in-game, whereas Eternium is pretty much a solo experience.

[StGeorge688]

I have so many CT's I am using them on 76's and 75's because they are taking up to much space. I am cutting my ANB's down to every other Bronze.

[Dbstrait]

Sooo...I may be out of line here...But it would appear to me...That all those who enjoy Eternuim are playing Eternium...And those who don't are here complaining about it...Now forgive me if that is truly not the case...I've only been playing Eternium for 3 months...Personally...I like the mechanics of the game...They are actually different from others...Almost all Hack and Slash RPG games have a set default of AoE and DPS...So far as I have seen...Eternium breaks these standards...In all things there are ups and downs and we do our best to make them better...But can anyone tell me in just one instance when complaining about something that was beyond your control actually made any difference???

[Wispy 2.0]

I can't locate my "soft deleted" comment that I was going to fix on pc, so I'll attempt to recreate it from memory (24 hours is a long time for a goldfish like me)...

Most of the people on the forum and indeed in this post certainly are still playing Eternium and to a certain extent still getting enjoyment from it in one way or another. The indifference noted by many veterans in this particular topic is more down to the fact that the Unreal engine has been announced and re-announced so many times over the years. I think the aim of this topic was to generate some hype for future development, but given the history of such announcements it's very hard to take seriously. There's been plenty added to the game over the years that has improved it in many ways, and unfortunately some additions that have made it worse (I still say the game had a Best Before End December 2019 label on it's food label).

My two posts on this topic are firstly my "I'll believe it when I see it" post, as per my opening paragraph. As the OP also mentioned that they are close to having a prototype to share, I decided to hunt down an old video from 2017 which was a prototype of multi-player pvp. Now the thing with prototypes is that we don't know how far down the line of development they were with the prototype. If I were to guess, the 2017 prototype purporting to show multi-player pvp was probably several AI characters made to look like real players, with one human character then fighting multiple AI. To the viewer it certainly looks like multi-player pvp, but as a prototype it probably was just a concept of what that game mode could look like. This is speculation on my part. If that was the case, then running a client side prototype is a whole lot less development than having a multi-client + server battle running which presents many more difficulties and things to consider - as a single example, currently if a single data packet is lost when running a Trial, then the Trial does not count to the leaderboards. What would happen in real-time pvp with such things? Does that count as a death / loss / carry on as normal? At what point do you decide a person has deliberately dis-connected to try and avoid a loss?

Complaining about things beyond ones control....remember the great EA Star Wars Loot Box scandal? As well as being pulled from the game, the fallout is still rumbling slowly through the legislative process and the things are going to get regulated eventually. Across the world, companies have dedicated complaints departments, there are industry ombudsman, even the court systems are full of civil cases. On a personal front, I've been banging my head against a brick wall between two government departments this year. I finally got to meet someone in person yesterday after making the right scary noises (RAWR) - it helps when you identify a breach of privacy and data-protection laws, and that you'll be writing to your MP around multiple other departmental failures as that gets attention very quickly and they become very keen to talk. All of this beyond my control, yet by the time I had arrived home, the management had emailed to confirm that several workstations had been taken out of service immediately and that a full security survey was underway.

In summary, this topic is meh, the game is still fun, complaining works.

And back off to my rock for hibernation. I've already made more posts than I ever intended with this profile.

[Ozymandius]

Probably the biggest example of feedback on the forums working to accomplish something positive in Eternium was that after many posted suggestions from players, the developers created a second stash which doubled player inventory. Most of us were more than happy to pay the $4.99 to get the extra inventory, so it was a real win-win for both the players and the game's cash flow. The developers also listened to player comments in the last balancing upgrade, and instead of nerfing the existing meta builds (which had been the strategy of previous balancing changes), the only changes in the most recent balancing upgrade were buffs to lesser used equipment, which made them more competitive.

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

FWIW, that PvP prototype was actual devs dueling in real time on a local server.

[Tolimar]

Wispy 2.0, I have been emailed about your recent post but have been told I am not authorized to view it. Your message starts “I think the topic was originally created…”. I cannot find it in the forums.

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

I'm not an exec (nor do I want to be). My face is all over everything because I'm the longest standing employee.

[Dbstrait]

Not even a chair???

[StGeorge688]

Did the rest just fell over. LOL

[Tolimar]

I just hope that you can be here for the future (if any) of Eternium. The game has been virtually unchanged since I rejoined it in April 2021. But I still learn something every day. If you visit the forums enough, you will soon recognize the Veteran players that are always ready with help and support. And the forums are a treasure trove of guides and answers to questions. And Travis will always try to answer your questions if he reads your posts, or if you send him an email directly to Support. Hopefully, there will be a lot of growing to be done in the future with Eternium, and I would be glad if you are there with us.

[Ezinnul]

Hello Eternium Community and thank you for supporting the best-ever mobile action RPG!

People have been asking: what’s up with Eternium? The real question should be: what’s next for Eternium?

As many of you know, Eternium is written on the Marmalade game engine. It was the best choice when we started development nearly a decade ago, but times have changed and it is no longer supported by its creators. Dream Primer has been doing an admirable job of supporting the engine themselves, hacking at the Marmalade source code we licensed in order to keep Eternium functional and compliant with the ever evolving Apple and Google APIs.

Working on Marmalade has severely limited the ways that Eternium can grow. Think about it: how many engineers do Unity and Unreal have managing their game engines? We have a far smaller number managing the core engine technology while also developing the game on top of it. We are at a severe disadvantage on this orphaned tech; it is time to move on.

Dream Primer took a deep dive in to carefully consider and test the various options – which we quickly boiled down to Unity vs. Unreal. After careful consideration, we have chosen Unreal Engine 5 as the new engine technology platform for Eternium. We are super excited about the opportunities Unreal provides for advancing Eternium, especially its support for real-time multiplayer development.

We will share information about progress and plans as things develop. For now, I’ll leave you with a teaser that Dream Primer has made amazing progress developing a next-gen prototype on Unreal. They will reach an important milestone soon, at which time we will have more to share.

I look forward to continuing this conversation with you. In the meantime, we are always here to support you with any issues you may have with Eternium.

John Welch
CEO, Making Fun
On behalf of the Making Fun + Dream Primer team

Ok, thanks for he info. So we still don't have an answer for the "what’s next for Eternium?" question

Were you guys serious with this post? The community is waiting for real in-game improvement; not wishes like "coming soon" signboard at town. And CEO's message just ruined our expectations. Im done with this game..

best for all.

[Jose Sarmento]

Ufff...
I was trying to craft a suitably eloquent response, as I once used to write (or try to) on these forums.

But I'm just too tired, too sick of the same speech, same excuses, same approach every time. The same no-news under the guise of news. This time from the game publisher, not the developers. That's all the more sad.

I'll just sub what would be my eloquent post with some common-sense questions that come to mind. These are addressed to John Welch (CEO), should he wish to comment:

1) back in December 2018 the new crafting system was introduced in Eternium (see Red's post at https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/th...s-and-features). At the time, over Discord we were told two new programmers had been brought into the team & the crafting was one of their first "outputs".

It was *also* said that one of those new programmers had been brought on specifically for his Unreal engine expertise. The intent to port the game (Eternium original) to Unreal had also been stated by Adrian (Developer), at least as early as October that year.

Would you care to elaborate a bit more on what has been achieved between then and now?


2) you mention, and I forget how many times we've heard it, that "it's a small team, has to support both a dead SDK and the game itself, consider how bigger titles have much larger teams etc".

So your approach to a spread-thin team is to spread it *even thinner* between comatose SDK support, Eternium 1 maintenance, and Eternium 2 development?

If lack of resources is the issue, doesn't Eternium 1 provide enough revenue to make growing the team and bolstering its development a feasible strategic investment?

Lastly, in your view, how did the same (or even smaller) team manage to churn out the game in the first place? Did it also take 4 years to decide which SDK to use?

How would you elaborate a bit on the resource allocation since Glory and the Unique trinkets and 4th class set were introduced in June 2020? It would seem two years would suffice to re-create the game on a new Engine, considering all the groundwork (skills effects, damage, monster HP, etc.) can be reused.


3) you also mention, and I quote, "We will share information about progress and plans as things develop.". That could be interpreted as "plans" only being created "as things develop", which I believe is anathema to the concept of "plan", but let's assume in good faith that there are Plans in place, and you choose not to share details to avoid thwarting expectations later on (after 4 years, not much is left to thwart, but ok).

But you *can*, I think, comment a bit on the *existing* plans for Eternium. Back in August 2021, balancing changes were introduced that helped even the game's builds, but (by the developers' own admission) did not complete that designated goal, and a follow-up patch was promised. To quote Adrian directly:

Thanks again for the detailed feedback.
We'll compile a list of improvements from your suggestions and include them in a new build.
Until then we are going to release this version live to allow alpha testing players to join the new season and the upcoming ANB gold.

Can we still expect that follow-up patch? How long, and in what capacity, will Eternium 1 be mantained from now on?


I do think that's long enough.

[CarnivorousDeathParrot.2]

I think the only real announcement here is that there won't be any more developments/fixes for Eternium.

Instead, they seem to want us to somehow stick around while looking foward to some "Eternium 2" game. . . and then have us put money and time into that all over again - it won't happen.
The Eternium community got screwed over with bad decisions way too many times.

. . .and that is IF they manage to release it within a year or two. With what team? Can't even fix basic stuff. . .

[CarnivorousDeathParrot.2]

Spot on. Thanks.

[RAFERS102]

So another season looms and no real insight into the future of the game. This kind of backs up my comment earlier on about the timing of the CEO's announcement. All smoke and mirrors whilst Diablo wad being released. RIP eternium.

[Jose Sarmento]

"Because work has actually started on the project and progress is being made. "

So WTF happened between October 2018 and now, Unreal-wise?

If "progress is being made", why not wait for said progress to *actually produce some viewable output* before putting your foot in your mouth?

[RAFERS102]

Think I have learnt with this game that progress means, "expect somthing this decade". To be honest that isn't for wrong, game was created in 2014 and some things happened in that decade. Now we are anther decade on, we can expect some things from 2022-2030. Probably some colour changes or a new sound.

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

When an Unreal port was mentioned in the past, it was done so prematurely. We were excited that an engineer with some Unreal experience joined the team. Now, almost the entire team has dedicated a portion of their time to this next gen stuff (the rest of their time remaining on Eternium), so real progress is being made.

[StGeorge688]

I just wish that they would fix some of the bugs that have been plaguing the game for years. Since they added this weird PvP, they have introduced other bugs that have nothing to do with PvP. Then they change ACT II and introduce more bugs. Rather than spending the time on ACT II they should have written ACT V . Try to play ACT II with only pick up armor.and reduced CL points, don't die else get stuck somewhere in never never land. It seems that every release I find a bug in the first 5 minutes. I did at one time report bugs years ago but it is just a waste of time. I know Tavis does his best but it seems he is the only one. I would enjoy the game more it they just stop development on this platform and fix the existing bugs. I will wait for the new platform without complaint of no new content, just fix the existing bugs so that this version is playable without having to abort the level. I do not even use the armory anymore without trepidation that game will crash. Still haven't fixed the memory leak that has been there for as long as I remember. It is not very hard to write a small bit of code to clean up the sand box every once in awhile. A little bit of code will point you to where your stacks are overflowing. Just write some inline assembly if you have to.

At the top "This is a sticky topic" that is the sad truth

And where it that is 4 hours ahead of EST.

[Tin Man]

A very small part of Greenland? Cape Verde?

Four hours ahead of EDT would be places like Mauritania and Mali and any other places that are at UTC without observing any form of daylight savings time, that counts out Greenwich.

In all serious, I wanted to remind about what they said when they introduced the revamped Act II. Players were a bit miffed that they redesigned Act II rather than fix bugs. Players were told that the Act II redesign was artwork only and did not require contributions from the developers, may be using the wrong term here.

Well, they were obviously wrong because, as you have indicated, the revamped Act II introduced all sorts of new headaches. So much for only being artwork changes.