Eternium - Unity Development Update #3

[John Welch | CEO]

This is a detail we haven't specifically talked about changing (that I am aware of - I am not in all design conversations). That said, I am curious why you prefer pure random over helping a player than has been 'starved'?

[Hairball]

I’ve been playing Eternium for a good few years now … the main reason that attracted it to me (other than the content and play style) was the fact I could play it on the iPad by using my fingers … it’s brilliant.

There just are no other options available other than Eternium when it comes to playing on an iPad … it’s the ease with which I can play on my iPad, sit back in my armchair and play, touch screen and gestures make it so easy and playable … I wouldn’t even consider using a joystick or external device.

It is what makes the game unique …

so much so, I run three different accounts, one for each

KEPE WUMA TOXE 3576….. Warrior acc (2249),
WELE QEBU VUYO 4842….. Mage acc (2260),
WOQI ZOBA WUGA 9469….. BH acc (2277)

I’m sure you have all the stats with regards to how many players use iPads and mobiles etc … I would urge you to keep on using the touch/gesture system

[CannibaL]

What about the crafting system? the current system assumes "Gambler's Fallacy Enforcement Mechanism". Will it be revised? For me personally, pure random is better...

[LiamRedbeard]

Thank you John Welch for the Unity update and your direct and honest answers to the many questions put forward here. I am looking forward to the new game. Since I do not play games on my mobile any longer, I really do not care about the gesture interface, although I found it easy to use on my iPhone when I first started playing Eternium. I, too, would like to see some kind of character import feature from Ethernium to the new game, but not crucial for me in deciding to play the new game. I am not familiar with gamepads, I have been a mouse/keyboard guy like forever, but I will have to check them out. Thanks again and good look with the Unity build.

[Bali_Lenni]

Thanks for the answers ! :-)

[WarriorSeven]

Thanks for the responses, John. Very helpful clarifying. And thanks for the opportunity to comment. One of the few games out there that permits open discussion.

[Shintara]

Yaaaay!
" you will finally face Ragadam!"
hahaha FiNaLLY

It all sounds wonderful and well thought out
I love that you take the time to inform us about what had been going on and your and the team's thoughts and motivations
I can't wait to see the sequel!

Thanks for your Update mr.Welch ♡

Good luck with all the new endeavours!♧

[Swamp Donkey]

Much appreciated for your response and time. It is a rare treat for a CEO to communicate on this level and actually provide palpable information. Loving your work.

[John Welch | CEO]

Thank you! Please play the alpha later this year and let us know your before/after thoughts on the controls.

[John Welch | CEO]

1. Reading between the lines with the feedback from Google and Amazon, seems Eternium is relegated to a "new game" construct as the path forward. Jury is still out in my mind if this is good or bad.

Yes, although I wouldn’t use the word “relegated”. What we can add to the live game or not will also affect how we think about the new game. I am glad the jury is out - wait to judge until you have seen the new game!

2. Monies sunk into the game, even regularly or during the long haul, are NOT investments. It's discretionary spending -- your choice to buy "candy" for that one-time, immediate gratification -- or not. That said, monies spent to further develop their toons (by minnows, dolphins and whales, alike) demonstrate true brand loyalty to the game concepts (and its developers), something very difficult to place a value on.

Exactly, which is why we are taking this seriously and planning to reward veteran players, even while we do not wish to limit what we can do in the new game.

3. Then there is this legacy issue regarding what to do with resources post launch, especially for well-established and veteran players. If the "new" game concept goes forward (i.e., it looks and feels and smells a lot like the live version), Eternium should address what happens to existing toons, gear, medals, gems, CL points, etc. That is, will ANY of this of carryover to the new Unity game? If not, consideration should be proffered to those players for those legacy resources (replacements in kind in the new game?; some equitable liquidation of assets into something "as valuable" as consideration/compensation?, etc.)

We will consider many factors, including level and recency of spending. We will also provide cosmetic rewards and probably resources as well for veteran players that haven’t spent much or anything. It is a “free-to-play” game, after all.

4. I'm a bit shocked Eternium is even thinking about removing gestures. This unique feature is most important to mobile players -- it makes this game portable and playable anywhere. If you introduce external interface gaming hardware for PCs and tablets, fine! But please keep gestures for the untethered mobile user!

We hear you! Play the alpha then let us know if you still feel this way! :-) By the way, for mobile, we are talking about thumbsticks - virtual gamepads. Physical gamepads would be for the PC version, although I guess there are ways to use them on a phone or tablet.

5. Finally, your folks bit off more than you can chew with this long and tiresome launch of Unity. Many of us would have been most satisfied with a far quicker turn-around to address the engine transition while eliminating the many bugs, poor coding, and lousy stat reporting. These issues and fixes alone could have been fantastic as the "new" game. Then all the enhanced features discussed by John Welch | CEO now and previously could then have been incrementally rolled out later as enticing updates and/or added features. LodWig has a point here -- this hyped-up but painful slog to the finish line may be over for some before the race even begins!

Hmm, “far quicker… engine transition” implies that a direct port would have been faster. That is exactly what we hoped and found to be not true. The choice is to spend the next year reproducing the exact same game or building a slightly different and more expandable game. Unfortunately, there is no “quick” when talking about software as large and sophisticated as Eternium built on a technology that is no longer supported.

We appreciate the dialog and support!

[John Welch | CEO]

- Accounts. -
I don't have a lot of time to play. Sometimes I have to cut back and this makes every little milestone take longer. How will accounts be handled in the new game for existing players? Will we get everything? Will there be a bonus resource or gift pool to at least jumpstart a class for legacy players? Everyone starts fresh? Something else?

Thanks for asking. Yes, we are thinking about bonus resources for previous purchasers and cosmetics to recognize previous accomplishments. Things that reward previous investment without limiting creativity or ruining the excitement of starting fresh. Please see my response to LodWig for more.

- Controls -
Personally, most UI Gamepads I've found either horrible or just barely passable on my phone, and it tends to obscure my view of the map on games like this. Eternium 's gesture interface is one of the reasons I picked it up and it works quite well (if I'm not lagging). Is it possible to allow for a hybrid scheme, or at least to switch between a UI controller or the old gesture-based scheme in options?

We will consider keeping gestures after we get feedback on the new control scheme. Again, please see my LodWig response for more.

- Balance -
At present, there are some discrepancies among Mage, Bounty Hunter, and Warrior in terms of their Trial clear speed and maximum Trial clear averages. Is there a plan to address some of these out of the gate? Or should we expect a new meta to form with new gear?

We will address class imbalances as part of a larger opportunity to offer and encourage a greater variety of ways to build and play each individual character. The meta will most certainly evolve, as items and abilities will be different from the current version. Rewards will likely be based on class leaderboards, with an overall LB being more about bragging rights than rewards. Clearing a Trial quickly will always favor some hero class over others... and that's OK. Our plan is to have a number of different ways to engage with Trials, so speed will not be the only way.

[John Welch | CEO]

So my 2 pence. The gesture system is what makes this game unique. If we are moving over to a joystick, people might as well play Diablo, Darkness Rises or one of many other games like that.

To echo other peoples concerns, what happens to our current accounts that people have been building for half a decade+ and have invested large sums of money. This question would need to be answered to make an objective decision on crowd funding.

Please see my reply to LodWig on gestures and accounts. A few additional thoughts:

Console games use the same controllers, yet there are compelling reasons to play different games, even within the same genre. The same will apply with our new games, regardless of input controls.

We mostly think about the accounts question from a creative perspective: what will enable the best player experience when the new game launches and then over the next 5-10+ years?

From a business perspective, we want players to keep playing now and to continue playing our games when the new ones launch. We cannot compromise our ability to make the best games possible just for backwards compatibility. We think an honest conversation that generates actionable ideas about how to reward veteran players is the best path to keeping people engaged now and getting lapsed players back later.

[John Welch | CEO]

Sounds exciting ! Could you please provide specific Eternium examples of using the new mobile (mb.ph.\tablet) ARPG virtual joystick. The current touch\gesture system may be one of the major reasons of Eternium's popularity. What exactly will it be replaced with or is it possible to keep it as an option, can the 2 systems be mixed ?

Thanks for the question! The gesture controls were certainly instrumental in establishing Eternium many years ago. What do people want today? Please see my thoughts in my response to LodWig above.

[John Welch | CEO]

- Despite all its flaws I like the gesture interface

We are discussing this a lot internally. We have some staff who only play one ARPG, Eternium, and they love the gestures. Most of the team are more hard-core gamers that play every ARPG on every platform and they only want gamepads. I was in between, as a player of PC ARPGs w/ keyboard and mouse who doesn’t really play other ARPGs on mobile. The more I play with gamepads, virtual or otherwise, the more I like the way it feels - and looks - I can see the action and not just the back of my fingers.

We had gesture controls in an earlier build. We want to optimize for gamepads in the closed alpha so we can gather feedback on what players think about something different. We will have a good selection of abilities to test out but it will not be too late to put the gesture controls back in the game, even if it means there are some abilities that are either funky or not possible. We’ll be sure to capture some scenes highlighting the controls when we release the gameplay video later this month.

- I don’t think the current version will live long after the launch of the new one

Time will tell. We will support Eternium as long as it has a player base. Eternium is a beautiful, battle-tested production game, whereas the new game will be just getting its legs in a year. We are still entertaining the hope to do more in the live game. Ideally, we would have Act V and the Ragadam battle in Eternium instead of in the new title, especially if we could launch that sooner.

- What will happen to current accounts?

Existing accounts will continue to work in Eternium, which as I said above is not going anywhere (and may get better). So, I assume you are asking about how useful they will be in the new game, and specifically (how) might heroes and gear transfer into the new game, which is not precisely known at present.

Most games give little or no utility or value to players for having spent a ton of time and money in a previous version of a new game. Consider: Diablo I → II → III → IV. We are not setting out to develop a super different game, we appreciate and value our players, and of course we want people to continue playing and spending $$$ to enjoy and support the game between now and when the new title launches.

So, let’s be clear: we are going to give you stuff in the new game, and what it is will be a function of your progress in Eternium. Let’s explore what that might look like.

It is theoretically possible that we could implement some sort of import feature. Even as systems diverge in terms of items, stats, abilities, and leveling data, we could still create a way to map old stuff to new stuff. This might be attractive for some veteran players, it would be meaningless for new players, and it would be difficult and constraining for the development team.

Anyway… isn’t the main form of competition in this game called A New Beginning? Given how much fun it is to start over and level a character, should we invest development energy into how to NOT begin again? The new game will offer a fresh, new onboarding and leveling experience complete with a new story that continues the tale from Eternium. You won’t want to miss the full adventure!

The most likely scenario is we will provide valuable free resources to show appreciation for players who have been spending and especially those who continue to spend in Eternium. We will provide cosmetic items to honor players for their status and accomplishments in Eternium. Cosmetics are an area we want to expand in the new game, along with providing more ways to compete and connect socially even within a single player game.

At launch, we will invite players to log in to see what they get. Beyond just nice or generous, that is a compelling marketing tactic! There is so much we can do with this type of system. We look forward to your input and feedback.

- Don't you fear the Osborne effect?

Wikipedia: The Osborne effect is a social phenomenon of customers canceling or deferring orders for the current, soon-to-be-obsolete product as an unexpected drawback of a company's announcing a future product prematurely. It is an example of cannibalization.

We know it is a possibility that some people will be turned off by whatever we say. However, not sharing is not an option. We will develop a better product by engaging with our community to understand what is important to them. We hope the dialog helps players feel heard and included and that they will continue to support Eternium and Making Fun as we work diligently to create the best games possible for everyone.

[adolf_2003]

Personally, I'm happy for the team's progress. All I need is to see what Ragadam looks like and how to defeat her/him and how difficult that encounter will be.

I prefer tap to move controls hoping it will be retained. That design makes Eternium unique.

Whatever your plans, I'm all in to support the project.

Thanks.