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Medal of Vigor Displayed Value Inconsistent

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    Medal of Vigor Displayed Value Inconsistent

    Game version: __ v1.4.54
    Windows/IOS/Android + version: __ Android versions 7 and 9 compared to Windows 10
    Device Model (EX: Apple iPhone7) : __
    Map or Trial (EX: Trial Level 92): __N/A
    Player Type (EX: Mage): __N/A

    Player Gear: __ N/A
    Abilities: __ N/A
    Reproducible: _5_/5 (1/5 = happened once; 2/5 = happens randomly; 3/5 = happens sometimes; 4/5 = happens often, but not always; 5/5 = happens always)

    Current situation (bug):

    The value displayed for a Medal of Vigor Level 9 shows as +32 Haste on Android and +33 Haste on Windows. Is unclear if the values are different or just display rounding differences as does occer with some hero attributes.

    Expected situation (working):

    Would expect the values to display consistently between the platforms.

    Steps reproduce the bug:
    1. Can be viewed on the ANB Gold #4 - Warrior Leaderboard when looking at #23 Triggie


    Screenshots or Video of the bug: (add as many screenshots as you need)

    Here is the medal for the same hero viewed on two different platforms.

    Viewed on an Android device:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Vigor - Android.png
Views:	209
Size:	133.3 KB
ID:	170778


    View on a Windows 10 computer:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Vigor - Windows.png
Views:	155
Size:	126.1 KB
ID:	170779
    My Eternium Data Files Can Be Found Here:

    Eternium Files

    Trial Level Unlock Updated: 2020-05-27
    All Hero Type Abilities Updated: 2020-05-02

    Please let me know if you find any obsolete information or errors. I also welcome suggestions for presentation or content.

    #2
    Looks to be a rounding issue 32.5 is the actual value. This is also happening for the max value of 140.5 as well for perfect stats at lvl 77. Mobile platform rounds down, PC rounds up.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Kungpaogao View Post
      Looks to be a rounding issue 32.5 is the actual value. This is also happening for the max value of 140.5 as well for perfect stats at lvl 77. Mobile platform rounds down, PC rounds up.
      Well, rounding down is called truncating. Yes, I know there is a ROUNDDOWN function in Excel but that nomenclature is just wrong.

      I suspect is more likely that the software for one platform is configured to show only the integer portion, completely ignoring the fractional component, while the other defaults to rounding before display.

      Regardless of why they display differently? The different displays are most likely holes in programming because I highly doubt there is something hardcoded into the operating systems that would force, without any possibility of adjustment, values to display so differently.

      Whether or not the values are internal to the game is not something we can know unless we ferret out configurations where we know, roughly, the X.X value when we are able to see only the X value. Yes, we have ways of determining which of two jewelry pieces that both display "90" are higher but figuring out the fractional piece of haste would be a much bigger puzzle.

      Even if the values are handled the same in the game, which they likely are and this is just a display issue, the discrepancies can be a bit disconcerting to us players and make us wonder what is going on.

      The best solution? Plug the holes like every other bug. I suspect this, like most other bugs will be fixed with the June 31 release.
      My Eternium Data Files Can Be Found Here:

      Eternium Files

      Trial Level Unlock Updated: 2020-05-27
      All Hero Type Abilities Updated: 2020-05-02

      Please let me know if you find any obsolete information or errors. I also welcome suggestions for presentation or content.

      Comment


      • RockDoc
        RockDoc commented
        Editing a comment
        June 31 and Feb 30! Guess that is one way to say we won't be seeing it anytime this century.
        Last edited by RockDoc; 05-16-2020, 05:25 PM.

      • Tin Man
        Tin Man commented
        Editing a comment
        RockDoc I will go out on a huge limb here and guarantee that we will have the June 31 release by no later than 29 February 2100. Keep in mind that Y21C is still in this century.
        Last edited by Tin Man; 05-16-2020, 09:12 PM.

      • RockDoc
        RockDoc commented
        Editing a comment
        Leave it to Tin Man to pop my balloon of hyperbole with his pin of acuity.

      #4
      It is only a display difference I think. On the three platforms (iOS, Android, PC) values are rounded to "the" nearest integer if there is one, the policy differs only in case of a tie (two integers are equally near to half an odd integer). On iOS (and i think Android too), the chosen integer is the even one. On PC, the chosen integer is the highest one.

      Note that the rounding policy may vary because of the CPU used, whose instruction set may or may not makes the policy easily chosen. Ensuring consistent display would be great, but I suspect is not on top priorities. (Also: even on one platform, the rounding policy may vary from stat to stat. For example on iOS, for display on the Hero's Attributes sheet, the vitality is truncated but the power is rounded to nearest with ties up. Indeed, rounding is a mess in this game.)

      Based on observed values on iOS, I think the Haste values are as follows (with values under different rounding policies shown):

      Click image for larger version

Name:	Medal of Vigor - Haste.png
Views:	105
Size:	51.3 KB
ID:	170962


      The same situation arises for Heroism medals, for Critical Rating as for Haste above, and (with "integer multiple of a tenth of a percent" instead of "integer") for Critical Damage as follows:

      Click image for larger version

Name:	Medal of Heroism - Critical Damage.png
Views:	97
Size:	89.2 KB
ID:	170963

      Note that I have firmly established that the Critical Damage from three Medals of Heroism is exactly 14.25%.

      I suspect the displayed number on a PC would be the ones shown under "nearest, ties up".

      For more about rounding, see Wikipedia
      Mobile Only (iPhone 5 / iPad Air 1st gen / iPad Pro 11" 2nd gen)
      Eternium Files

      Comment


        #5
        Originally posted by LodWig View Post
        It is only a display difference I think. On the three platforms (iOS, Android, PC) values are rounded to "the" nearest integer if there is one, the policy differs only in case of a tie (two integers are equally near to half an odd integer). On iOS (and i think Android too), the chosen integer is the even one. On PC, the chosen integer is the highest one.
        So, since we players can explain why there are inconsistencies, the inconsistencies do not count as a bug?

        Is the contention that these differences are inherent and fundamental differences between operating systems or hardware? That the display is set by the hardware or operating system rather than a global setting by the application version or a variable definition in the application version?

        I have no problem leaving discrepancies unflagged, like the damage increase from Smoke Screen being only .3 rather than the claimed 30%. After all, the discrepancy is just a display issue.

        A bug is "an unexpected defect, fault, flaw, or imperfection". That displayed values are different for various operating systems would be considered an imperfection, I would think.

        If we are to view bugs as only things that make the game unplayable? Well, I guess many things that cause players to raise concerns are not really issues then. Translation issues between the various language versions? Just a display issue. That Mage Armor implementation does not match the description? Just a display issue. That The Cleaver actual damage varies from the description? Just a display issue.

        So, I guess we should just ignore all inconsistencies and just happily play without desiring to improve the application and player experience.

        I appreciate your resourcefulness in being able to ferret out some of things you do. How you managed to determine some of these things continues to amaze me.

        Knowing the how and why does not excuse an imperfection in my book.

        I will remove this not a bug in a couple of days so as not to confuse players about what should be considered acceptable.

        My Eternium Data Files Can Be Found Here:

        Eternium Files

        Trial Level Unlock Updated: 2020-05-27
        All Hero Type Abilities Updated: 2020-05-02

        Please let me know if you find any obsolete information or errors. I also welcome suggestions for presentation or content.

        Comment


        • LodWig
          LodWig commented
          Editing a comment
          I have now established, with no doubt, that 9 Medals of Vigor provide exactly +32.5 Haste.

        • Tin Man
          Tin Man commented
          Editing a comment
          LodWig I do not question your verification but I would love to know how you verified it. A way to verify that kind of number without going through a huge amount of gymnastics and still having a high degree of uncertainty.

          Well, not necessarily a high degree.

          Using gear that is crafted and you have keep careful record to the hundredths shown when crafting, then you could combine the gear to validate whether the additional haste from the medals takes you to a solid number when you are showing XX.50 with the gear you equip. That would drop your uncertainty down to around 1%.
          Last edited by Tin Man; 05-20-2020, 08:25 PM.

        • LodWig
          LodWig commented
          Editing a comment
          Answer too long for a comment, to be found below. And please, do question [my] verification. No doubt, no science! Also, yes, it's quite a huge amount of gymnastics. (Nice wording!)

        #6
        The trick is to leverage the way rounding is handled (for some displays) on iOS: to nearest, ties to even. For this particular case, here is what I did.

        The haste rating with no haste added is displayed (on iOS) as 33 when sporting 9 Medals of Vigor, and with 5 haste added, as 38. So we can't use this display to infer the value we seek. So, we turn to attack speed.

        The full formula for the attack speed can be found here. With 8% synergy bonus, no archers, and no dual wielding, it simplifies to

        S = 1.08 × ( 1 + 6/( 1 + 1000/H ) )


        The value of S is shown with 2 decimals, so we need it to be of the form x.xx5 to both establish what rounding policy is used here, and maybe what is the exact value of H. In other words, we need S = (2s+1)/200 with s a natural number.

        Suspecting that 9 Medals of Vigor provide exactly +32.5 Haste, we assume H = h / 2 with h a natural number.

        Therefore, we try to solve

        1.08 × ( 1 + 6/( 1 + 2000/h ) ) = (2s+1)/200


        over the natural numbers, and with a low enough resulting H value.

        I have been lazy and just asked a computer algebra system, namely WolframAlpha, for the solutions, if any.

        Thankfully there are solutions, with sufficiently low h value, the first two being:

        h = 304 and s = 193
        h = 1840 and s = 418


        translating to

        1.08 × ( 1 + 6/( 1 + 1000/152 ) ) = 1.935
        1.08 × ( 1 + 6/( 1 + 1000/920 ) ) = 4.185



        Luckily the attack speed values may reveal the rounding policy in use, but unfortunately the haste values are natural numbers, so we need a way to add half a point to the suspected +32.5 from the 9 Medals of Vigor. The only way is to equip an item with x.5 haste, and the easiest way to be certain of the value is to craft a perfect haste item, and the only items with perfect x.5 haste are of level 1, 71, 73, 75, and 77.

        (Note: Don't believe the Orb, it may refuse to enhance a non perfect attribute. I have seen this.)

        So I crafted this:

        Click image for larger version

Name:	perfect 0.5 haste.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	53.6 KB
ID:	171505

        (Fun fact: I tried to craft level 1 pants with perfect haste, but it went up to 1 (judged "excellent") on the five level 1 I got! And on them an Orb show this:

        Click image for larger version

Name:	excellent 1 haste.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	12.8 KB
ID:	171506

        Then I switched to pistols, and the first try was the one shown above.)

        Here are the resulting attack speed displayed, with 152 haste ( 26×4 + 32.5 + 0.5 + 10 + 5 ):

        Click image for larger version

Name:	with 152 haste.png
Views:	53
Size:	130.1 KB
ID:	171507

        and with 920 haste ( 98×4 + 32.5 + 0.5 + 4×50 + 40 + 5 + 250 ):

        Click image for larger version

Name:	with 920 haste.png
Views:	53
Size:	129.7 KB
ID:	171508


        Using Occam's razor, we conclude that:
        • The attack speed is shown rounded to nearest hundredth, with ties to even (at least on iOS)
        • The boost in haste from 9 Medals of Vigor is exactly 32.5
        Mobile Only (iPhone 5 / iPad Air 1st gen / iPad Pro 11" 2nd gen)
        Eternium Files

        Comment


          #7
          This "rounding to nearest, ties to even" on iOS and "rounding to nearest, ties to highest" on PC is a real boon: After several experiments and false starts, I had a hunch that 14 Medals of Fortitude give exactly +276.5 Armor. And indeed, the bonus is displayed as +276 on iOS, and +277 on PC.
          Mobile Only (iPhone 5 / iPad Air 1st gen / iPad Pro 11" 2nd gen)
          Eternium Files

          Comment

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