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Passive Abilities giving scaled down bonus for characters less than level 70.

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  • Passive Abilities giving scaled down bonus for characters less than level 70.

    Edit: 07 Dec 2017 10:20pm UTC
    - updated topic name again, to clarify - sorry for the continual updates, wanted to be clear (or as clear as possible)
    - Again, please read below for more details: the passive abilities seems to be affected by the scaling for Champion Points, introduced in 1.2.65 - whether that was intentional or not need to be clarified by the devs. Thank you.

    Edit: 06 Dec 2017 8:40pm UTC
    - renamed topic to better explain error, please see replies below for clarification.


    Game version:
    1.2.70
    Windows/IOS/Android + version: Android (4.4.4)
    Device Model (EX: Apple iPhone7) : Samsung Galaxy J1 (SM-J100Y)
    Map or Trial (EX: Trial Level 92): NA
    Player Type (EX: Mage): ALL

    Player Gear: Sapphire Gemstones (on XP Jewelry)
    Abilities: Celerity
    Reproducible: 5/5


    There seems to be an inconsistency with the Attack Speed bonus from the passive skill Celerity versus those given when using gemstones. Sorry, my phone's playing up and not letting me take screenshots properly right now, so I've attached the spreadsheet that I'm using to try and calculate the K(level) for it - sorry if things are a bit hard to read...

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Haste calculations.png Views:	1 Size:	16.2 KB ID:	76279

    Gemstones used to test, these are the best I've got right now: 1 x Brilliant (+50) , 1 x Trillion (+40), 1 x Radiant (+30) => +120 Haste
    Celerity skills level varies for each characters, no items/skills/minions equipped - gemstones are socketed on XP jewelry, and are the only 3 items equipped when recording values.

    The error seems more obvious for characters level 33 and lower:
    - Level 33 Bounty Hunter: synergy bonus 4% => base # attacks 1.04 (as expected)
    - Equipped with +120 Haste from gemstones => 2.24 attacks per seconds
    - No gemstones, Celerity Level 8 (+210 Haste, from description) => 2.06 attacks per seconds
    - Combined (+330 Haste) => 2.93 attacks per seconds


    Error not obvious, and hidden due to complexity of calculation for characters level 38 and above, from my data anyway. Those rows where the calculated K values are beyond 1000 (which is the K for level 70) - are with Celerity only.


    So it looks like the displayed value of Haste bonus from Celerity is incorrect.


    I have no way of working out what it actually is using my characters, since currently don't know the K value for my character levels. Could someone please post their # of attacks with only Celerity equipped for a Level 70 character, then I'll work it out - at least for that level of Celerity.
    Last edited by Nhat; 12-07-2017, 10:22 PM.

  • #2
    Screenshots, confirming values posted above for Level 33 Bounty Hunter

    Celerity description: +210 Haste
    Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2017-12-03-19-15-28.png
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    Attacks per second, with Celerity equipped: 2.06
    Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2017-12-03-19-15-49.png
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ID:	76301

    Attacks per second, with Sapphires: 2.24
    Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2017-12-03-19-16-57.png
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    Jewelry stats - total +120 Haste
    Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2017-12-03-19-17-05.png
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ID:	76300Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2017-12-03-19-17-13.png
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ID:	76302Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2017-12-03-19-17-30.png
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    Attacks per second, with Sapphires and Celerity: 2.93
    Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2017-12-03-19-17-42.png
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ID:	76304

    Comment


    • #3
      Nhat

      I am using this formula to calculate Attack Speed ...
      (pretty sure it's right -- see my post on Optimizing your Hero where this formula was corrected, twice, until I got it right):
      ~~~
      Attack Speed = { 1 + [6*H / (KAS + H) ] } * (1 + Synergy + #-Robins * 10%) * (1 + 30% if dual wield)
      ~~~
      For my level 70 mage:

      a) Synergy = 8% (can't turn it off)
      b) Robins = take them off since we're focusing on Celerity
      c) Mages are not Dual Wield
      d) as you know, K = 1000

      Therefore we should have:
      Attack Speed = { 1 + [6*H / (1000 + H) ] } * (1.08)

      Now let's separate the effect of Celerity:
      Attack Speed = { 1 + [6* ( H+Celerity?) / (1000 + (H+Celerity?) ) ] } * (1.08)
      ...where Celerity -- level 10 mage -- simply adds +250 or not.

      With all my gear on and Celerity active, I have Haste = 990 + 250 = 1240. Thus calculated Attack Speed = 4.667 and what is displayed (rounded) is 4.67. Remember that the "990" is itself rounded.

      Removing Celerity ... Haste = 990 and (calc) Attack Speed = 4.304, with 4.30 listed

      Removing ALL gear (which may cause a small rounding error), but leaving 80 CL points (which is an exact +200), I have Haste = 200 (without Celerity) and Attack Speed = 2.160 (listed 2.16). Then Haste with Celerity = 450 and Attack Speed = 3.091 (listed 3.09).

      ===> I am not seeing an error.





      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the info Coda

        Could be an issue with lower level Celerity - mine were only Level 7 (+190) and Level 8 (+210) - as shown, the attack speed is definitely incorrect with it - again, for lower level characters. So it could be the scaling of the bonus.

        Would it be possible to get some data from anyone who have Celerity less than level 10 please. Thank you.

        Edit:
        I'll check again in 72 hours, upgrading my mage's Celerity to Level 10 now - so I did have Level 9 (+230) as well...
        Last edited by Nhat; 12-03-2017, 10:13 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Not quite 72 hours yet, but I've rechecked, and Celerity is definitely giving different bonus to Attack Speed than the stated Haste bonus - for characters levels from 56 to 28, and for Celerity less than level 10.

          I've checked the values with only Celerity equipped, and with the Living Weapon and Sapphires equipped to attempt to match the stated Haste bonus from Celerity - all my characters resulted in different Attack Speed - Warrior Level 28, Bounty Hunter Level 33 & 38, Mage Level 44, Warrior Level 56.

          Another thing I noticed was that Celerity resulted in higher attack speed for higher level characters, which doesn't match that of the decreasing attack speeds when checking with only sapphire gemstones.

          From what I can see, there seems to be some Haste bonus (or maybe it's still using the old % bonus) and then a (% bonus * Level) - which accounts for the increasing attack speed for higher level characters.


          Warrior Level 28, Celerity +210 Haste => 2.05 attack speed
          Click image for larger version

Name:	Attack Speed - 28 W - b - Celerity - 210.png
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ID:	76541Click image for larger version

Name:	Attack Speed - 28 W - c - Celerity - 2.05.png
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          Warrior Level 28, Sapphires and Storm Sword:
          +50 Haste => 1.68 attack speed
          +110 Haste => 2.29 attack speed (already higher than that given by +210 Celerity)
          +194 Haste => 2.96 attack speed
          Click image for larger version

Name:	Attack Speed - 28 W - d - Sapphire - 50 - 1.68.png
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ID:	76543Click image for larger version

Name:	Attack Speed - 28 W - e - Sapphire - 110a - 2.29.png
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Name:	Attack Speed - 28 W - f - Sapphire - 110b - 2.29.png
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Name:	Attack Speed - 28 W - g - Max - 194 - 2.96.png
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          Warrior Level 56, Celerity +210 Haste => 2.15 attack speed (higher than 2.05 for level 28)
          Click image for larger version

Name:	Attack Speed - 56 W - b - Celerity - 210.png
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Name:	Attack Speed - 56 W - c - Celerity - 2.15.png
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          Warrior Level 56, Sapphires and Storm Sword:
          +50 Haste => 1.43 attack speed
          Click image for larger version

Name:	Attack Speed - 56 W - d - Sapphire - 50 - 1.43.png
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          +110 Haste => 1.82 attack speed
          Click image for larger version

Name:	Attack Speed - 56 W - e - Sapphire - 110a - 1.82.png
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          Matching Celerity: +210 Haste => 2.37 attack speed
          Click image for larger version

Name:	Attack Speed - 56 W - g - Match - 210a - 2.37.png
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ID:	76552Click image for larger version

Name:	Attack Speed - 56 W - h - Match - 210b - 2.37.png
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          Comment


          • #6
            You factored in the attack speed bonus from Synergy right?

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes, they all include the Synergy bonus, since I'm taking the value as displayed on the Character's Gear screen, as shown in the screenshots.

              So to clarify the examples above:

              Level 56 Warrior, no gear, skills, minions; working purely with displayed attack speed on Gear, which includes Synergy bonus, since I can't turn it off:
              a) Level 8 Celerity - which say it gives +210 Haste => Attack Speed displayed: 2.15 attacks per second
              b) Equipped with items matching the +210 Haste => Attack Speed displayed: 2.37 attacks per second


              Edit:

              Similar issues with all 5 of my characters, all under 70 - 56 Warrior, 44 Mage, 38 Bounty Hunter, 33 Bounty Hunter, 28 Warrior - I have similar screenshots for all of them.

              With respect to the levels discrepancies:
              a) Level 28 Warrior - Level 8 Celerity (+210 Haste) => 2.05 attacks per second => 4% Synergy, so base is 1.97 attacks per second.
              b) Level 56 Warrior - Level 8 Celerity (+210 Haste) => 2.15 attacks per second => 6% Synergy, so base is 2.03 attacks per second.

              So Level 8 Celerity gave more attacks per seconds to a Level 56 Warrior when compared to a Level 28 Warrior.

              But when I do the similar comparison with Sapphires gemstones:
              a) Level 28 Warrior - +110 Haste => 2.29 attacks per second => 4% Synergy, so base is 2.20 attacks per second.
              b) Level 56 Warrior - +110 Haste => 1.82 attacks per second => 6% Synergy, so base is 1.72 attacks per second.

              This more closely matches the whole "diminishing return" thing for higher level...

              (Edit 2: Fixed Synergy bonus for Level 56 Warrior, 6% - attack speeds were correct, just wrong synergy % written)
              Last edited by Nhat; 12-06-2017, 11:39 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ah ok. It's more clear now. Yes, seems to be bugged below level 70. Hard to argue with your meticulous analysis. Math rules.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Edit: 7 Dec 2017 8:15 am
                  Renamed bug report, all passives are affected...


                  Game version: 1.2.70
                  Windows/IOS/Android + version: Android (4.4.4)
                  Device Model (EX: Apple iPhone7) : Samsung Galaxy J1 (SM-J100Y)
                  Map or Trial (EX: Trial Level 92): NA
                  Player Type (EX: Mage): Warrior

                  Player Gear: None
                  Abilities: Intense Training
                  Reproducible: 5/5

                  Since it looks like Celerity is bugged - I thought I check the other passive ability, and looks like Intense Training is bugged as well.

                  Level 59 Warrior, no gear/abilities/minions, Synergy Bonus: +70 Ability Rating - stats correctly show Ability Rating at 70:
                  Click image for larger version  Name:	Synergy_70.png Views:	1 Size:	269.4 KB ID:	76801Click image for larger version  Name:	Ability_base_70.png Views:	1 Size:	295.4 KB ID:	76799

                  Intense Training, Level 7 - description says: Ability rate increased by 120 - so expects 190 => but got 171 instead.
                  Click image for larger version  Name:	Intense_training_7_120.png Views:	1 Size:	278.1 KB ID:	76800Click image for larger version  Name:	Ability_combined_171.png Views:	1 Size:	296.7 KB ID:	76798
                  Last edited by Nhat; 12-07-2017, 08:16 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Found this in the release notes for 1.2.65

                    Champion levels now award smaller bonuses for characters under level 70. Extra gold, extra experience, movement speed and extra life are exempt from this rule and still provide the full benefit.
                    So maybe this is impacting the bonuses from passive abilities as well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Maybe, but it states CLs not Passives. Thanks for calling attention to this. Either the in-game tooltips are wrong or there is a bug. Either way something needs to be fixed.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ok, looks like it's confirmed. ALL passive ability bonuses are affected by the above scaling for Champion Level.

                        My warrior is now level 60, and the same Intense Training now results in 173 Ability Rating - includes the +70 from Synergy bonus - was 171 at level 59.

                        Similar results for Duelist with grant bonus to critical rating, Sword and Board and Lightning Reflexes - and I can't be bothered checking anymore...


                        I'm updating the bug report name.

                        Travis (I have no idea link to your id with the @ thing) - could you please merge the Celerity bug report into this one, thank you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nhat View Post
                          Travis (I have no idea link to your id with the @ thing)
                          He purposely made it much more difficult to tag him, he reads everything anyway.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well done Nhat

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