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Is Arc Lightning Attack Speed and Damage suppose to stack?

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  • Is Arc Lightning Attack Speed and Damage suppose to stack?

    Game version: 1.2.88
    Windows/IOS/Android + version: Android (4.4.4)
    Device Model (EX: Apple iPhone7) : Samsung Galaxy J1 (SM-J100Y)
    Map or Trial (EX: Trial Level 92): Training Ground (but pretty sure it applies everywhere
    Player Type (EX: Mage): Mage
    Player Gear: None
    Abilities: Arc Lightning
    Reproducible: 5/5

    Found a number of interesting things while testing Arc Lightning for Haste interaction with %based modifiers?

    Click image for larger version  Name:	arc lightning.png Views:	1 Size:	199.2 KB ID:	85973


    Arc Lightning appears to be giving 50% Attack Speed bonus


    Searching through the forum resulted in the following notes on Arc (Chain) Lightning:

    1. Upcoming changes in 1.2.11
    Chain lightning attack speed buff has a maximum stack limit of 10.
    Chain lightning attack speed debuff has a maximum stack limit of 5.
    But there's no "attack speed debuff" - so I'm guessing that it have since been changed to the Damage bonus one, couldn't find any mention of this though...


    2. Also, just realised this from 1.2.65 game update notes
    Arc Lightning (rank 10) now deals 180% weapon damage (was 140%).
    But the abitlity's description says 185%


    I couldn't find anything else that mention Arc/Chain Lightning specifically, so don't know if there are any other intentional changes. Please see the linked thread at the start for more details of the test, didn't want to repost too many things.


    So, is this a typo in the description, or a left over bug when the ability was updated?
    Last edited by Nhat; 02-13-2018, 01:21 PM.
    Eternium Files - links and details (Updated: 10 Aug 2018)

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  • #2
    Based on the above, something like this may be occuring:
    • Let's assume Attack Speed is exactly 6.667. Therefore 10 attacks are completed in 1.5 seconds.
      ~
    • In the first 0.75 seconds, which are the first 5 attacks (attacks #1 to #5), each attack adds +5% Attack Speed and +5% damage received by enemies, and then the damage received at that point is at max (+25%), while the AS boost is also at +25% but has room to stack more.
      ~
    • Then during the next 0.75 seconds, the second set of 5 attacks (attacks #6 to #10) each attack adds only +5% AS until it also is at max = +50%.
      ~
    • In other words, during the time period 0 to 1.5 seconds, the overall boost is ramping up and after all 10 attacks reaches
      +87.5% max =100% * [1.50*1.25 - 1]
      ~
    • Then if one were to switch attacks at that exact moment (in other words, time = 1.51 seconds, with 10 attacks for arc lightning completed) - - like let's say, switch to Arcane Bolts - - the +87.5% "fully boosted at max" will run for the time period from 1.51 seconds to 5.0 seconds = 3.5 seconds in duration
      ~
    • Then at 5.0 seconds, assuming one is still attacking with something other than Arc Lightning, the boost would start ramping back down over the next 1.5 seconds, the reverse of above, because each individual +5% boost lasts only 5 seconds.
      ~
    • Or, at t=5.01, one might switch back to Arc Lightning for 1.5 seconds, and repeat the process.

    Red (Developer) or Adrian (Developer) ...i​​​​​​s this correct :
    Arc Lightning causes (up to) 87.5% more damage from Attacks
    (note, only 25% more from Utilities)

    ... if used "exactly properly" according to the above ?

    To me this is a huge question, thus apologies for the rare "Dev-Tag", to hopefully please request a better understanding.
    Last edited by Coda; 03-24-2018, 04:21 PM.
    VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381
    ~ Gethi, mage, TL109 mobile & TL121 PC
    ~ Kisheli, XP mage, TL112

    ~ ANB-beta, TL100 (#1); ANB1, TL116 (top 10); ANB2, TL110 (top 10);
    ANB3, TL112 (top 10)

    Comment


    • #3
      From brief testing a while back in the training room the buff/debuff are single stacks, not individual item. I.e. only a single arc hit/use is required to keep them refreshed but if the timer expires then the whole stack drops and you effectively start from scratch.

      To me this seems more 'standard' behaviour for such things in rpgs?

      Comment


      • #4
        (Pulling in test data, save the trouble of going and checking the links)


        Originally posted by Nhat
        Ok, preliminary test - can't get it out of my head (thanks...)

        Level 70 Mage - no gear/skills/companions
        Damage: 5-5 (base + power bonus)
        Attack Speed: 2.38 (250 Haste from CP + 8% Synergy Bonus - so the change is more obvious)

        Checking:
        (1 + 6 * 250 / (250 + 1000)) * 1.08
        => (1 + 1500 / 1250) * 1.08
        => (1 + 1.2) * 1.08
        => 2.2 * 1.08
        => 2.376 (rounded to 2.38, so close enough)


        Arc Lightning: 185% damage => 9.25
        Bonus: 5% => 9.7125
        Crit: 200.0% => 19.425


        Training Ground: Single target, left it running while I washed the dishes and cleaning the house...

        Casts: 2352 | 7908
        Per Cast: 12 | 12 - consistent enough
        Average per second: 43 | 43 - same

        Damage within the expected range, using per cast and average per second gives:
        => 43 / 12 => 3.5833...
        => Gained: 1.2 attacks per second
        => That's a 50% increase - which seems in line with what was posted above (2 M increase from 4.8M)

        But that's 10 TIMES the displayed 5% gain and looks like it's AFTER the calculation:
        • AS = { Base Attack Speed from Haste } * {1 + Synergy + Companions}
        • If dual wielding: AS-D = 1.3 * AS
        • With Arc Lightning Bonus: AS-AL = 1.5 * AS (or AS-D)

        Originally posted by Nhat
        Although Arc Lightning doesn't have Attack Speed debuff - might have been changed to increased damage, but if it still stacks, giving 25% damage bonus.

        This actually matches my Mage's damage more closely, since that comes to 11.5625 - only had 5% chance of crit, so was very unlikely.

        Checking against Blink - 3 damage => 1.85 * 1.25 = 2.3125 (still less than 3)
        => doesn't look like the debuff stacks, otherwise my main's attacks would have done more damage...
        Eternium Files - links and details (Updated: 10 Aug 2018)

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        • #5
          Arc Lightning behavior that I know so far, which I tested before.

          1) While at max stack, it can refresh with a single attack. but if you lose the buff, you will have to start over again.
          2) Mirror Image, companions and summoned pets does NOT proc the effects.
          3) Singularity will NOT proc the effects, even if you place in on the "Left Slot".
          4) but......While at max stack, Singularity can deal more than twice the damage. average of x2.5 the damage.
          5) Mirror Image gets the bonus attack speed, but doesn't seem to deal more damage per cast.

          So far, I have not notice the "increase damage taken debuff" even from arc lightning itself or any other source of damage besides Singularity.
          I'm not sure if the big increase in Singularity damage is from the ASPD buff alone.


          Last edited by Radz; 08-02-2018, 07:16 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Based on my tests, Mirror images get the attack speed boost for themselves, and do apply the debuff on the target - the 5 stack seems to be the combined max on the target, regardless of source.

            Originally posted by Nhat View Post
            Sorry to disagree, but the clone's Arc Lightning attacks definitely boost their attack speed and apply the +damage debuff.

            Training Grounds test, char not attacking, simply casts Blink to get the clone to attack

            Initial screenshot, no AS buff, no damage debuff.
            Click image for larger version Name:	Screenshot_2018-06-03-13-49-27.png Views:	1 Size:	262.7 KB ID:	103188

            Clone attacking target, notice AS buff on clone (green smoke) and damage debuff on target (dark circle with red centre)
            Click image for larger version Name:	Screenshot_2018-06-03-13-49-15.png Views:	1 Size:	262.8 KB ID:	103189


            Although there seems to be an issue with the AS buff "green smoke", but it may be issues on my phone itself...
            • If my mage already have it before casting Blink, the clone will starts attacking fast before reseting and then rebuilding up their stacks, but the "green smoke" will not appear around the clone.
            • If my mage wasn't attacking and the clone got the effect, then I starts attacking, I occassionally don't see the effect on my mage.
            Edit:

            The green smoke disappearing on the mage is expected, if you stopped attacking with Arc Lightning for 5 seconds - the clones are building and maintaining their own AS stacks, not that of the main char.

            Edit 2:

            Confirming damage debuff applied to all targets hit by the "chain"
            Click image for larger version Name:	Screenshot_2018-06-03-14-17-03.png Views:	1 Size:	265.1 KB ID:	103190
            Last edited by Nhat; 08-02-2018, 09:23 PM.
            Eternium Files - links and details (Updated: 10 Aug 2018)

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            Comment


            • #7
              I see the red dot debuff animation. is that +damage debuff or -ASPD debuff?
              I tried to see on the Damage/Cast with and without the debuff. it does not seem to change.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Radz View Post
                I see the red dot debuff animation. is that +damage debuff or -ASPD debuff?
                I tried to see on the Damage/Cast with and without the debuff. it does not seem to change.
                As far as I am aware, the red dot debuff is the +damage debuff - according to the current description of Arc Lightning, there's no -Attack Speed debuff on the target, but the old quoted note mentioned it, thus, even more confusing.

                I might re-test this again - use a different attack to get the initial Damage/Cast (or just look at the Floating Number), then attack with Arc Lightning for a while (to ensure max stack) and switch back to the other attack and compare result. As mentioned in the test data, (edit: where I only used Arc Lightning throughout), I was seeing 12 damage per cast with a base damage of 9.25, so +25% "makes sense" - if there was no debuff, I would be seeing 9 damage per cast.

                Edit 2:
                If you're using weapon/tome, the min/max range of the damage itself may be hiding the increase - thus it's a clearer test without weapons, removing the range for the damage.
                Last edited by Nhat; 08-03-2018, 05:21 AM.
                Eternium Files - links and details (Updated: 10 Aug 2018)

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                • #9
                  Test results for +Damage debuff - Android, v1.2.115

                  Base damage: 6-6
                  Frostbolt: 425% => 25.5
                  Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2018-08-03-17-11-48.png Views:	1 Size:	179.2 KB ID:	110191 Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2018-08-03-17-11-54.png Views:	1 Size:	279.7 KB ID:	110195

                  Attacks without debuff: 25
                  Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2018-08-03-17-12-58.png Views:	1 Size:	261.8 KB ID:	110193

                  Attacks with debuff: 31 => expects 31.875, so slightly off, but obviously did increased
                  Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2018-08-03-17-13-26.png Views:	1 Size:	266.0 KB ID:	110194


                  Edit:
                  Also tested with single Arc Lightning attack, showing 26 damage for Frostbolt, therefore it is stacking 5%. 25.5 × 1.05 = 26.775, again, assuming floored display of floating numbers, which results in the 26.

                  Sorry no screenshot, phone/game was lagging a lot during that test...
                  Last edited by Nhat; 08-03-2018, 11:22 AM.
                  Eternium Files - links and details (Updated: 10 Aug 2018)

                  Eternium Guides:

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nhat View Post
                    Test results for +Damage debuff - Android, v1.2.115

                    Base damage: 6-6
                    Frostbolt: 425% => 25.5
                    Click image for larger version Name:	Screenshot_2018-08-03-17-11-48.png Views:	1 Size:	179.2 KB ID:	110191 Click image for larger version Name:	Screenshot_2018-08-03-17-11-54.png Views:	1 Size:	279.7 KB ID:	110195

                    Attacks without debuff: 25
                    Click image for larger version Name:	Screenshot_2018-08-03-17-12-58.png Views:	1 Size:	261.8 KB ID:	110193

                    Attacks with debuff: 31 => expects 31.875, so slightly off, but obviously did increased
                    Click image for larger version Name:	Screenshot_2018-08-03-17-13-26.png Views:	1 Size:	266.0 KB ID:	110194


                    Edit:
                    Also tested with single Arc Lightning attack, showing 26 damage for Frostbolt, therefore it is stacking 5%. 25.5 × 1.05 = 26.775, again, assuming floored display of floating numbers, which results in the 26.

                    Sorry no screenshot, phone/game was lagging a lot during that test...
                    You could've also checked if the debuff is refreshed when you choose to do this pattern. Stack 10x (and in turn you gain 50% aspd and debuff 25% to mobs to take more damage). Instinct says that using AL once every 4 seconds (to be safe of losing the stacks) will refresh the aspd given (50%), but..... does it also refresh the debuff at max stack or you need to attack 5x again to restack it?
                    Bounty Hunters: Aice Sang (Assault), Natalia (Stalker)

                    Mage: Seulgi (Exp), Suzybae (ANB 3 3rd & Live-LB 11th)

                    Warrior: Asuna

                    FIRU VARI WAFI 3808 (Mobile & PC)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Suzy.Bae View Post

                      You could've also checked if the debuff is refreshed when you choose to do this pattern. Stack 10x (and in turn you gain 50% aspd and debuff 25% to mobs to take more damage). Instinct says that using AL once every 4 seconds (to be safe of losing the stacks) will refresh the aspd given (50%), but..... does it also refresh the debuff at max stack or you need to attack 5x again to restack it?
                      True, but that wasn't the focus when I did that test run. Have ran it again just now as suggested, and I can confirm that the +50% Attack Speed and the +25% Damage debuff are fully refreshed after one Arc Lightning attack, for the 5 seconds duration.

                      Also confirmed is the gradual build up of the +Attack Speed buff.
                      Eternium Files - links and details (Updated: 10 Aug 2018)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nhat View Post
                        ... I can confirm that the +50% Attack Speed and the +25% Damage debuff are fully refreshed after one Arc Lightning attack, for the 5 seconds duration...
                        Excellent work. Very good to have this confirmed.
                        VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381
                        ~ Gethi, mage, TL109 mobile & TL121 PC
                        ~ Kisheli, XP mage, TL112

                        ~ ANB-beta, TL100 (#1); ANB1, TL116 (top 10); ANB2, TL110 (top 10);
                        ANB3, TL112 (top 10)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nhat View Post

                          True, but that wasn't the focus when I did that test run. Have ran it again just now as suggested, and I can confirm that the +50% Attack Speed and the +25% Damage debuff are fully refreshed after one Arc Lightning attack, for the 5 seconds duration.

                          Also confirmed is the gradual build up of the +Attack Speed buff.
                          Magnificent! Bravo! Cheers mate! So I guess this should be in players helping players then?
                          Bounty Hunters: Aice Sang (Assault), Natalia (Stalker)

                          Mage: Seulgi (Exp), Suzybae (ANB 3 3rd & Live-LB 11th)

                          Warrior: Asuna

                          FIRU VARI WAFI 3808 (Mobile & PC)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Suzy.Bae View Post
                            So I guess this should be in players helping players then?
                            Technically still a bug - since the description doesn't mention anything about the stacking.

                            I might put together an Abilities encyclopedia, or something like that, which can then go into the Guides section - maybe...
                            Eternium Files - links and details (Updated: 10 Aug 2018)

                            Eternium Guides:

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nhat View Post

                              Technically still a bug - since the description doesn't mention anything about the stacking.

                              I might put together an Abilities encyclopedia, or something like that, which can then go into the Guides section - maybe...
                              I don't think it's a bug. Based off what was given to us by Travis, Devs will want us to discover stuff instead of putting those into their description. Then so be it, I'm glad you guys are here. So that simply means players would rather discover it than being transparently told that it does what it does and not something else/additional.
                              Bounty Hunters: Aice Sang (Assault), Natalia (Stalker)

                              Mage: Seulgi (Exp), Suzybae (ANB 3 3rd & Live-LB 11th)

                              Warrior: Asuna

                              FIRU VARI WAFI 3808 (Mobile & PC)

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