Enough With The Trial Upscaling, Okay? :-\

[Suzy.Bae]

The scaling you're feeling is the 8% HP increase per trial and your CL (DPS) is likely going up as well. At lower trials your hero equipment, skill, and DPS combination increases at a rate that exceeds the 8% HP increase. Once your hero begins to plateau, that 8% increase is much more prominent.

I realize that I'm talking to one person (a pro) with an unchangeable opinion, but most of us feel the need to respond to these threads as an attempt to clear the air for the other readers.

I bet those are other factors. I'm now at rank 508 beating trial 97 with lower sheet damage. Will try 98 now wihout much CL increase in mobile good luck to me. The patch updates also showed the near 3x more increase in enemy toughness per trial so i guess that's what he felt. As for healers, yeah, elites heal a crazy ton and I avoid them.

[orion_134]

The scaling you're feeling is the 8% HP increase per trial and your CL (DPS) is likely going up as well. At lower trials your hero equipment, skill, and DPS combination increases at a rate that exceeds the 8% HP increase. Once your hero begins to plateau, that 8% increase is much more prominent.

I realize that I'm talking to one person (a pro) with an unchangeable opinion, but most of us feel the need to respond to these threads as an attempt to clear the air for the other readers.

[orion_134]

Map variance is huge, especially at high trials. Some maps I can clear mobs in 6:30-7:00, very few I could clear in 5:00. At *gasp* the same sheet DPS.

[Suzy.Bae]

So to get the extra damage he had to change stats .I wanted to know what he changed from and to so I could try to make sense of wy he's doing worse.

Okay. So just today morning while travelling, I tried to complete Trial 96 with 769k DMG 130k Toughness and 16k Recovery. First attempt, I died 4 times so I lost those precious seconds to clear (curse those random missiles that aren't visible during Immolate Blizzard Singularity combo. Then I figured I should stand at one place unless I'm spamming AL 10x, so everytime Im casting AB, I move every 2 seconds circling around mobs. For some reason, I'm getting used to circling around tons of mobs and avoiding 3 healers or 2 that are elite to save time. Not sure if I got lucky with my map but on my second attempt I finished TL 96 with those stats with almost 1 minute left on the clock.

What I realize is, it DOES MAKES IT EASIER to clear trials if you prioritize HASTE over POWER. I've been stacking POWER and leaving Haste at 5 ASPD but this time, when I got a new apprentice tunic that provides Haste and some DMG because I figured having 1571 AR isn't that good via mobile, I pushed to throw my CL points to Haste until I reach 6.01 ASPD.

Guess what? As soon as I keep using Vortex on tons of mobs into 10x AL before I cast Singularity, double clone, and Blizzard, I felt strong enough that I clear mobs easily comparable to my previous setup with Frost beam. This one's more reliable because they don't need to be in a single spot. It's also good against Magroth given that FB isn't really that good vs him.

I'll post an update with my screenshots later (because I finished it offline) when I get home because I don't think I'm repeating Trial 96 given that 97 is now open.

P.S. I'm not so sure if it's easy for me because of what Melchiah said that it MIGHT be scaling with Sheet DPS. My sheet DPS is far lower at only 769K. Also, I'm afraid it will be hard to clear TL 97 as I feel the struggle on beating the clock. I just got lucky that there are a lot of normal mobs in a short area so I was able to summon Magroth quite early than my previous run and I only died once before doing so.

Vagrant - Not sure but I think he mentioned losing a few toughness and ASPD (0.5/0.05) to get the additional 100k Sheet DPS based on his previous post.

[Vagrant]

I think that 10% increase in Damage didn't really do much in a flat rate. I'm curious to see what they end up figuring with what he said.

So to get the extra damage he had to change stats .I wanted to know what he changed from and to so I could try to make sense of wy he's doing worse.

[Suzy.Bae]

What did you trade for the extra damage?

I think that 10% increase in Damage didn't really do much in a flat rate. I'm curious to see what they end up figuring with what he said.

[Vagrant]

TL96, 1002K Damage, 100K Toughness. Playing on TL91, I've got Healers who were annihilated after one draw rotation at around 920K now taking three draw rotations, with their healing nearly outpacing my DPS. That's not supposed to be happening.

Enemy damage output seems higher too, and enemy count and elite rates shot way up after I added that extra Damage. Seems to be happening on all TLs.

I've suspected that it was happening since I started playing, but my Mage's most recent Damage increase was pretty steep given that it required no play time. So the upscaling was drastic and immediate enough for me to really notice this time.

What I'm saying is that even though I'm on TL96 now and cleared TL91 with much less DPS, TL91 is now behaving as if it were several TLs higher based on how it's soaking an almost 100K increase in Damage as if it weren't even there. That was a 10% increase in Damage on my end versus what is supposed to be static TL-specific values.

It reeks.

What did you trade for the extra damage?

[Suzy.Bae]

By the way, what's the trial level? Set equips, and CL level you have? I'm curious because I never faced any hardship with my Mage until Trial 95 because I lack some skill in circling around and some base stats due to RNG drops. Do you already have 6/6 Apprentice? Because even though it's not read by the system to add as Sheet DPS, it increases your total damage in no way accurate to 20-30% per immolate proc depending on the mobs hit and the AOE active on those mobs overall per run in the map?

In addition, I just realized Mage scales incredibly well and really high compared to BH and Warrior when they get a decent to high amount of Haste, CD, CR, and Power. Like CL500-700 is really different than lower CL's (just as an example).

[Suzy.Bae]

When my main Mage starts struggling on TLs 5 below her current ceiling after picking up 93K in Damage, it's pretty obvious that Trials are set to scale to character power instead of TL. Apparently, those lucky Reforge rolls, the re-allocation of CL points, and my first decent drop in ages are biiiiig no-no's when I've got only $2.00 on my purchase record. Much punish needed. :-(

By the way, what's the trial level? Set equips, and CL level you have? I'm curious because I never faced any hardship with my Mage until Trial 95 because I lack some skill in circling around and some base stats due to RNG drops. Do you already have 6/6 Apprentice? Because even though it's not read by the system to add as Sheet DPS, it increases your total damage in no way accurate to 20-30% per immolate proc depending on the mobs hit and the AOE active on those mobs overall per run in the map?

Just saw he's at Trial 96 which is what I'm aiming to finish when I get the time. He has 1m DMG. I'm sure I've read 96k only in the first post so I thought he's talking about lower CL'd Mage. From what I understand, it's about 3x toughness increase per 1x increase per trial. Not sure if Humus, Nhat, or Coda is the one who love to put the patch updates but it's there, right?

[Suzy.Bae]

Gave up only 4K Toughness and 0.05 attack speed. No other stats were sacrificed. Added sheet DPS is now almost ~116K higher. Same results.

Stay in denial all you want, but I know what I'm seeing. And despite GG's flaming (and perhaps jealousy that my BH, who I don't even try to improve, is at the same TL as his primary BH), I never claimed to be good. I just know how to control my variables when analyzing things like this.

But it really doesn't scale with sheet DPS nor DMG.

This is transparently given by one of the Devs which was shared by someone who uses Discord. Saw it on one of the posts here, can't remember.

[Purple Potato]

Another thing that I've come to understand, is that the "sheet DPS" is not a true reflection of the damage output from your character. Most of the damages for Mage, and I suppose other classes as well, comes from triggering Utilities - which is affected by Ability Rate. So if that's dropped as well, then the rate you're able to cast Utilities have also decreased, thus affecting overall damage output from your character. (Edit: I know you said "no other stats were sacrificed", just covering it too, just in case)

Yep, and singularity also procs life on hit and immolate 6/6 from apprentice.

[Nhat]

Gave up only 4K Toughness and 0.05 attack speed. No other stats were sacrificed. Added sheet DPS is now almost ~116K higher. Same results.

If the Toughness reduction was due to a drop in Armor, then yes, you're going to take more damage from the mobs - as Armor provides damage reduction. If you dropped from 65% to 63%, then you're taking actually taking almost 6% more damage than you used to - difference between only taking 35% versus now taking 37%, it's not a "straight" 2% increase of damage taken...

Another thing that I've come to understand, is that the "sheet DPS" is not a true reflection of the damage output from your character. Most of the damages for Mage, and I suppose other classes as well, comes from triggering Utilities - which is affected by Ability Rate. So if that's dropped as well, then the rate you're able to cast Utilities have also decreased, thus affecting overall damage output from your character. (Edit: I know you said "no other stats were sacrificed", just covering it too, just in case)

"Sheet DPS" is only good if all you're doing is straight out standard attacks, which is only feasible for low level Trials or Story maps - yeah, I'm still running those for the Stars, so I know.

Just some input for consideration, if you haven't already...

Edit:

Also, beware of "artificial inflation" of Toughness due to Dodge/Parry/Block (depending on your class) - these stats should be avoided, other than Block for Shield Warriors, since they're all "chance" but have a big impact on the Toughness calculation.

[GrauGeist]

If someone posts something that is completely wrong, and keeps doing that, it's not "flaming" to point out that they know a lot less about the game than they think they do. Regardless of how much they grind levels. But wrongly calling it "flaming" is consistent with how that person keeps posting things that are wrong, and then complains about these phantom problems.

Me, I recognize that I'm in the endgame, top 1%, so I'm just doing my dailies waiting for the next ANB event, not grinding for the sake of grinding...

[Purple Potato]

I just know how to control my variables when analyzing things like this.

Says the person who thinks the 2-tap finger is RNG for which finger it will go to when it literally goes between the 2... I'll keep doubting unless you record it and post it.

[Melchiah]

Gave up only 4K Toughness and 0.05 attack speed. No other stats were sacrificed. Added sheet DPS is now almost ~116K higher. Same results.

Stay in denial all you want, but I know what I'm seeing. And despite GG's flaming (and perhaps jealousy that my BH, who I don't even try to improve, is at the same TL as his primary BH), I never claimed to be good. I just know how to control my variables when analyzing things like this.