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  • Nhat
    replied
    Originally posted by xrobau View Post
    There isn't - or, probably more correctly, there wasn't. If there was, it was more than 50. I've had 12 ads today (I've been keeping track), but the last one I had was over an hour ago.

    Anyway. I'm not going to bother with this thread any more. Obviously SOMEONE has reacted to it, because the ads have vanished. I just hope you guys at MF can realize that 2 * $n is more than $n 8-)
    No one have changed anything, as mentioned in my first reply, there is an element of randomness to the number of ads you get while playing - based on my experience over the 8 months so far.

    As far as I can tell, the special box itself is part of the monster's drop table, so it must drop first, then it'll depends on whether there is an ad available to show or not, otherwise you'll get a random selection of Gold/Gem/Gear. Basically you've been "lucky" with your box drops, and thus resulted in confirmation bias with the results; there are plenty of other players who have not been so lucky, as evident by the numerous "no ads" posts that I've seen in the forum, and also based on my own game play experience.

    Chance is Chance, it takes a very long time to get a proper feel for it, which was why I mentioned that there were times I didn't see any ads at all - you cannot make any concrete assumption as to the number of ad boxes you will see over X hours of play; 10% chance does not mean it'll happen once every 10, each of the 10 times have a separate 10% chance of occurring - it may happen all the time (in your case so far), none (in the cases of some other players), or a mix in between (what I've seen enough to go with...)

    I do appreciate the suggestion, once I understood it, but it seems like something you can already do in the game itself, as others have been pointing out. Anyway, hope you're enjoying the game nonetheless and will continue playing, have fun.

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  • xrobau
    replied
    Originally posted by Buppy View Post
    You're the one not understanding. I know your proposal was an either/or system.
    Exactly.

    I was suggesting an alternate where they give you exactly what you're asking for, but also leave the decision to "disable" the ads up to you.
    The rest of your post is then about this incorrect alternative. So you're saying that your alternative is bad. I agree. That's a bad idea.

    So whether you realize it or not, what you are really asking for is gems that are cheap enough that you're willing to exercise that ability [.. to turn off ads ..]
    I like the cost of gems at the moment. Or, what they were, until whatever changed an hour ago changed. I'm happy to spend 30 seconds of my time to earn 5 gems. I just thought it would be a better idea to skip the middle man. However, all you lot that AREN'T accountants and AREN'T marketing specialists have jumped in.

    What you aren't taking into account is the reason for ads in the first place. ( deleted all the rest, because it was irrelevant )
    And your assumption is incorrect. Go read the second post in this thread.

    And I'm pretty sure there's a limit on daily ad boxes.
    There isn't - or, probably more correctly, there wasn't. If there was, it was more than 50. I've had 12 ads today (I've been keeping track), but the last one I had was over an hour ago.

    Anyway. I'm not going to bother with this thread any more. Obviously SOMEONE has reacted to it, because the ads have vanished. I just hope you guys at MF can realize that 2 * $n is more than $n 8-)


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  • Buppy
    replied
    Originally posted by xrobau View Post

    No, that wouldn't be possible. I feel like there is some language issue here, and I don't know how to make myself any clearer.



    Which is *exactly* what we are doing now, by watching ads. We are paying with our time, rather than money. I was suggesting we just cut out the middle man.

    HOWEVER. It looks like my point is moot. I have been playing idly while I build some packages, and I haven't seen an ad in 15 minutes of playtime. Either the ad network is broken (unlikely, but possible!), or someone's gone into the Ad dashboard and fiddled with the knobs.

    You're the one not understanding. I know your proposal was an either/or system. I was suggesting an alternate where they give you exactly what you're asking for, but also leave the decision to "disable" the ads up to you. I was trying to illustrate that your request really has nothing to do with ads.

    As has been repeatedly stated, you already have the ability to turn off the ads. So whether you realize it or not, what you are really asking for is gems that are cheap enough that you're willing to exercise that ability.

    What you aren't taking into account is the reason for ads in the first place. Reward ads are a method of monetizing players who are unwilling (or unable) to spend money themselves. No matter how much you sell there are always going to players who want more but are unable/unwilling to spend more money. Some of them will be willing to spend more time. Ads are always a source of revenue you couldn't otherwise get.

    The only question is to what degree "free" bonuses cut into normal sales. But that is even more of a concern with "purchased" bonuses, because with those you are dealing exclusively with players who are willing to spend real money.

    And I'm pretty sure there's a limit on daily ad boxes.

    Leave a comment:


  • xrobau
    replied
    Originally posted by Buppy View Post
    There would be people willing to buy the package, and also watch ads for even more gems.
    No, that wouldn't be possible. I feel like there is some language issue here, and I don't know how to make myself any clearer.

    What you are actually asking for is the ability to buy gems at a far cheaper rate, but making the amount dependent (at least in part) on active play time.
    Which is *exactly* what we are doing now, by watching ads. We are paying with our time, rather than money. I was suggesting we just cut out the middle man.

    HOWEVER. It looks like my point is moot. I have been playing idly while I build some packages, and I haven't seen an ad in 15 minutes of playtime. Either the ad network is broken (unlikely, but possible!), or someone's gone into the Ad dashboard and fiddled with the knobs.


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  • Buppy
    replied
    Originally posted by xrobau View Post

    I obviously am not being clear - ...
    It's not that you're not being clear, it's that your suggestion doesn't make any sense.

    Ad gems are not special. They're no different than any other gems. Focusing on the revenue they get from ads, or to be more specific, how cheaply they "sell" gems via ads, is irrelevant. Even if they give you what you want they would still make more by leaving the ads enabled. There would be people willing to buy the package, and also watch ads for even more gems.

    Say they sell a 1 month sub, buy it and every time a box drops in game you get 5 gems. Exactly what you want, right? All the ad gems, none of ad watching. But if they do that, they can also leave the boxes there for those that choose to watch the ads and get another 5 gems.

    You can already choose to opt out of seeing ads. You can already choose to buy gems. What you are actually asking for is the ability to buy gems at a far cheaper rate, but making the amount dependent (at least in part) on active play time. To properly account for it you would need to factor not only lost ad revenue, but more importantly the lost gem sale revenue from providing a cheaper purchase option.

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  • xrobau
    replied
    Originally posted by ྿༻Travis༺྿ (Support Mgr.) View Post
    Just to settle the dust a bit and validate a few points, the DP team hopes to prove this exact point eventually. They don't like ads in their game, but MF does. DP needs to prove to MF that the game can make the same (or more) revenue without ads before they will be removed.
    I obviously am not being clear - it's not that it needs to be proven. Go to your apodeal account, look at 'average $ CPM over last 30 days' - let's say that's $10, just to pick a random simple number.

    That means that you're earning - on average - 1c every time I watch an ad, right?

    So all you need to do is figure out how many ads I watch a day (random number - 20, again, to make it easy), and you need to charge me 20c * 30 per month to cover what you would earn by advertising - say $6 - but, I've actually had a better idea.

    To fill those in who don't know how this stuff works (which, appears to be most people in this thread), you (the app) regularly asks the ad network 'Do you have an ad for me?' - the app also provides a bunch of other quasi-anonymous stuff, but basically the ad network says 'Yes. I have an ad, it is worth $x if watched in full, and $x if aborted part way through. Do you want to show it to the user?' (There's actually a bunch more variables and settings, but that's the summary - and a lot of that isn't actually controlled by the ap itself, but by the management console, but THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Don't get hung up on bike-shedding)

    This triggers the 'Do you want to watch an ad?' event - in Eternium, it's the box that drops. If the user picks the box up, and selects yes, then the ad network plays the ad, and the app developer gets their 1c or whatever. You (the app) can also send back an authoritative no (which would be if you pick the box up, and say 'no'). Stats are logged on this at the ad server, too.

    So what I'm proposing is that when the box drops, the app sends back an authoritative no, but still gives the reward. It's been a couple of years since I've done this stuff, so I'm not sure if you can send back a REASON for the no, but, that's more for the devs and their stats.

    But here's the better idea, and it requires almost no extra code - Use the 'active playtime' clock that is used in the timed-XP-boosts, or gold boosts or whatever. Sell a '1 week playtime' pass - 168 hours of playtime.

    Using my (probably bogus) numbers of 1 ad every 2 minutes of playtime (90+30 secs), and 10,080 minutes in a week, that means that I would watch about 5000 ads in a week of playtime (which would probably be like a month of CALENDAR time) - and you'd earn about $50 from me, at $10 CPM.

    I'm not sure if I'd be willing to pay $50 for a month without ads but still getting the rewards.

    However, my numbers are hugely overestimated - if my rough (and what I feel is a realistic) CPM of $1 is correct, that means you only need to charge $5 to get the same amount as ads. I AM sure that I'd pay $10 for a month without ads, with still getting the rewards, and you guys still get double your money you'd get through ads.

    Funnily enough, $10 is pretty much what most apps are charging, too, so it seems to be the sweet spot.

    Leave a comment:


  • Buppy
    replied
    Considering there aren't any ads on PC, I'd think you already have a fair amount of data on that point. Or maybe most people play multiple platforms.

    Speaking for myself, gems seem kind of worthless. I bought a few of the special packs like Stormblade, gun, etc., one month of the daily gems, but everything else just from the freebies playing almost exclusively PC. I'd guess less than 500 gems from ads in more than a year. There's been a few stretches where I didn't even do the daily quests regularly. I have almost everything unlocked on all 5 characters, spent quite a lot in both ANB events, and I'm still sitting at around 11k gems. And I like it this way. Not feeling compelled to buy.

    If ads keep the lights on and support the free play, I hope they never go away. Players can already choose not to watch them.

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  • Travis | Support Mgr.
    replied
    Just to settle the dust a bit and validate a few points, the DP team hopes to prove this exact point eventually. They don't like ads in their game, but MF does. DP needs to prove to MF that the game can make the same (or more) revenue without ads before they will be removed.

    Leave a comment:


  • tshell
    replied
    Chosen nailed it. You've asked to pay money to get gems, without having to watch ads. That function is already there. But even better! You don't even have to click on the box or wait and get them over time. They all come at once! Turn off your ads in the settings and the boxes still drop. They just contain gold or gear now.

    So buy a pack. You'll get the gems and never have to watch another ad. Plus you can get extra gold if you feel like clicking those annoying boxes still. If it helps, you can imagine that they pay out gradually over time. You've already said you want to give them your money for gems that aren't hiding behind ads, there's nothing stopping you from doing just that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chosen
    replied
    Originally posted by xrobau View Post
    I'd like to give the developers more money, in exchange for wasting less of my time, but I'm totally astounded by your (and other) comments.
    Well, prepare to be pleasantly surprised because I have some good news for you, my friend: if you tap on your gem counter you will be able to buy different gem packages from 1200 to 17000. No ads at all! All the stuff you asked for, are already available for you.

    The team have probably done their research before deciding on the pricing of each package and they even added two more ways for getting gems (100/day & 5/ad), to cover a wide range of preferences.

    You're welcome!

    Leave a comment:


  • Humus
    replied
    xrobau don't worry I like your suggestion and agree with it
    tshell the point isn't that it should be 30k gems per month, the point is you should be able to pay to get gems instead of ads for more than what the devs get from the ads (so you gain time and the devs gain more money), and since most people don't get more than 100 gems per day from ads you would get that same amount of gems. They can cap it if needed to prevent the vpn exploit.

    Leave a comment:


  • tshell
    replied
    Originally posted by xrobau View Post

    I can only assume you have not read the entire thread. Can I suggest you start with, at least, my original post, and read it in its entirety?



    No, I'm saying it's not relevant. And, please, before you reply again, PLEASE READ MY ORIGINAL POST. Where I said, explicitly, 'charge me twice as much as you earn from ads'.



    I agree. But, again, not relevant.

    Plenty of other popular games are doing this, because it's a no-brainer. I just find it amazing that there's a couple of people - like you - who are actively saying 'I think MF should earn less than they could, because I would rather waste my time, and advertisers money'. I really like Eternium. I've been playing it for about a week, and I'm at 174.

    I'd like to give the developers more money, in exchange for wasting less of my time, but I'm totally astounded by your (and other) comments.

    So, OK. You've won. My terribly thought out, and "basically flawed" idea of 'paying more money to support the developers of the game I like' is a complete flop. I will continue wasting my time watching ads for other, competing games - many of which offer 'remove ads, get the rewards' plans, until I get sick of doing so, and try one of these games, and start spending money there, instead.



    Yes. How foolish of me.

    Edit: I realise, after re-reading I didn't EXACTLY say 'Charge me twice as much' - I said 'If you earn $1, charge me $2, and even with app store cuts, you'll still get more'. I expected better than 2nd grade mathematics, but apparently that was too much for some. So that's what I meant.
    Your selective editing cut out the point he was trying to make. You are asking for nearly 30k gems per month, with no ads. That is already an option, except it will cost you around $160. If you want gems without ads, that is already there. If you went cheap gems, buy the monthly pack. If you want 5 gems every few minutes, watch ads. There is no way you'll get that many gems with no effort or without a large amount of cash.

    Leave a comment:


  • xrobau
    replied
    Originally posted by Chosen View Post
    You can currently pay 5 bucks and get ~3000 gems per month, provided that you login every day.
    I can only assume you have not read the entire thread. Can I suggest you start with, at least, my original post, and read it in its entirety?

    The sheer amount of parameters that you seem to omit, such as target demographics, countries where the players are based, times of the day that the game is played, etc. need to be taken into account.
    No, I'm saying it's not relevant. And, please, before you reply again, PLEASE READ MY ORIGINAL POST. Where I said, explicitly, 'charge me twice as much as you earn from ads'.

    I think that the MF decision makers have found a very sweet spot,
    I agree. But, again, not relevant.

    Plenty of other popular games are doing this, because it's a no-brainer. I just find it amazing that there's a couple of people - like you - who are actively saying 'I think MF should earn less than they could, because I would rather waste my time, and advertisers money'. I really like Eternium. I've been playing it for about a week, and I'm at 174.

    I'd like to give the developers more money, in exchange for wasting less of my time, but I'm totally astounded by your (and other) comments.

    So, OK. You've won. My terribly thought out, and "basically flawed" idea of 'paying more money to support the developers of the game I like' is a complete flop. I will continue wasting my time watching ads for other, competing games - many of which offer 'remove ads, get the rewards' plans, until I get sick of doing so, and try one of these games, and start spending money there, instead.

    it's got very basic flaws
    Yes. How foolish of me.

    Edit: I realise, after re-reading I didn't EXACTLY say 'Charge me twice as much' - I said 'If you earn $1, charge me $2, and even with app store cuts, you'll still get more'. I expected better than 2nd grade mathematics, but apparently that was too much for some. So that's what I meant.
    Last edited by xrobau; 06-25-2018, 09:48 PM.

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  • Chosen
    replied
    Originally posted by xrobau View Post
    You're missing the point. Charge me $2 a month. Give me the 5 gems every 90 seconds of play time. You get more money, I don't have to watch the ads.
    You can currently pay 5 bucks and get ~3000 gems per month, provided that you login every day.
    Your suggestion is basically for another package, which would cost less than half of that (2 bucks) and that it could potentially give you 28,800 gems for the same period (1 month). This is such a realistic suggestion, I cannot imagine how this could ever be exploited...

    All joking/sarcasm aside, I think the person who is missing the point here is yourself. Companies do their market research, which by itself is a complex project which requires experts/professionals and costs $$$$, and based on that they decide how they will handle their ads. The sheer amount of parameters that you seem to omit, such as target demographics, countries where the players are based, times of the day that the game is played, etc. need to be taken into account.
    As brilliant as your suggestion may feel inside your own head, it's got very basic flaws and I am not even talking about your calculations being 10x off the mark.

    I think that the MF decision makers have found a very sweet spot, where all their ad revenue is based on "opt-in mechanics" (you don't see ads unless you specifically choose so) and at the same time have incentivized watching ads just enough so that people will volunteer when they feel like doing so. When you want to focus and farm stones or push trials, you can completely disregard ads; and when you could use 30 seconds to pour another drink, change the channel on the TV or wash your hands, ads can be very helpful.
    Last edited by Chosen; 06-25-2018, 11:05 AM.

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  • xrobau
    replied
    Originally posted by Land View Post
    The way these types of games work is that you pay little (or more then little) every now and then and the game is being continuously developed/improved.
    Charge me $2 a month. Give me the 5 gems every 90 seconds of play time. You get more money, I don't have to watch the ads.
    You're agreeing with me, then?

    Leave a comment:

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