Bounty Hunter Suggestions

[Melchiah]

It can't be a bad idea to release it pre-maturely since there's no way it can be launched 'perfectly.' Well, as long as there's no Leaderboards so there's no drama. :P

I'd bet that they'd beta test it extensively.

Pretty safe to assume that MP LBs would be ranked separately from SP LBs. Another good reason to have Championship events and a Clan system.

[Suzy.Bae]

All further reasons why I think that PvP would be a bad idea, unless maybe it were a team thing and using a near-completely different system of balance from the main game. And that would still be a huge maybe.

It can't be a bad idea to release it pre-maturely since there's no way it can be launched 'perfectly.' Well, as long as there's no Leaderboards so there's no drama. :P

[Purple Potato]

IAP profits will *always* be the principal motivation behind such a game, because that's how it works in the real world,

"Eternium is crafted with passion by a small band of old-school RPG fans, who love making the game they always wanted to play."

It's not the line I could find that says something along the lines of "made with passion not with greed" but it works.

[Melchiah]

You seriously need to stop using the word "paywall". THERE ARE ZERO PAY WALLS IN ETERNIUM. Every single part of the game is playable as a F2P. If there was content behind money that is a pay wall (say act 4 was out but you had to buy it for $1 to play it).

First of all, you're using it in strictly front-end terms. Maybe do a little research before you start presuming to bark orders.

Second, that was a little joke. See the smiley? Evidently you didn't.

Third, play semantics all you want. But at the end of the day, it's a freemium game wherein the overwhelming majority of player progress is determined by a RNG. IAP profits will *always* be the principal motivation behind such a game, because that's how it works in the real world, and those profits have been proven across the entire freemium model to be increasable through a variety of back-end means. Feel free to get around to dealing with that whenever you want. ;-)

[Purple Potato]

The only difference between a bug and a back-end paywall is whether or not the devs feel like fixing it. ;-)

You seriously need to stop using the word "paywall". THERE ARE ZERO PAY WALLS IN ETERNIUM. Every single part of the game is playable as a F2P. If there was content behind money that is a pay wall (say act 4 was out but you had to buy it for $1 to play it).

[Melchiah]

I still don't think that Trials being reached is the best way to check and balance the classes.

As far as trial achievement goes, you have 2 options. Either to nerf the class who's leading or buff the other classes so they can reach it too but before any of those are done, you gotta put into consideration how many of ''that class'' is really leading the leaderboards. It's not a question of one BH for example getting Trial 123 with the remaining BH's at 121 while mages are all in 122. That can be skill based already and (app support-based) since PC users have stuff going in for them and some that do not (some bugs).

There's no sense to talk about PvP balances if it's not even out yet. Like how much do you think are classes going to mitigate from each other's damage? How much does it really take someone to kill one on one? To be honest, BH is not really an OP class as far as I'm concerned when it comes to PvP since people can just get a ton of Move speed and run away waiting for cooldowns. Assassinate is so easy to dodge, Smokescreen just makes you invisible but (shouldn't make you invulnerable as far as AOE skill damage is concerned-PvP).

Just imagine a frost element user mage casting blizzard in your area to slow you down then blink towards youto use frost nova (6 seconds) then freeze you do death with 3x damage frost bolts while not being able to move? Not to mention the combination of the time altering skill mages have (which shouldn't be allowed in PvP really-unless they reduce the effectiveness.

Not to mention the Warrior's devastating strike 1 hit KO'ing a BH or Mage that doesn't have high Vit, LOL.

All further reasons why I think that PvP would be a bad idea, unless maybe it were a team thing and using a near-completely different system of balance from the main game. And that would still be a huge maybe.

[Melchiah]

Works as intended. Dev's have even said so.
i wouldn't MIND a slight push up on range, nothing like letal shot, just for mobile uses to get better usage. As it is it's super hard for many mobile players to even precive using it.
I think only real problem with it's range comes in the way rapid fire works. The character doesn't seem to KNOW his limited range and if one enemy is closer than a few behind it will still spread RF out hitting only the one in front while rest fall short.

RF TARGETING while using scatter should account for it's range. That'd be only change I would actually REAALY want.

Snipe...I dunno why it goes into the ground some times....if that was where my mouse was OKAY it's where I was aiming. But some times I put my mouse way on other side group hoping to get them all for it to hit one enemy and vanish....ugh

Snipe does that on mobile too.

The range issue on RF is indeed annoying, almost as annoying as not getting ready notes for it.

Funny, that reminds me of my philosophy on freemium games: The only difference between a bug and a back-end paywall is whether or not the devs feel like fixing it. ;-)

[Cultusfit]

I still don't think that Trials being reached is the best way to check and balance the classes.

As far as trial achievement goes, you have 2 options. Either to nerf the class who's leading or buff the other classes so they can reach it too but before any of those are done, you gotta put into consideration how many of ''that class'' is really leading the leaderboards. It's not a question of one BH for example getting Trial 123 with the remaining BH's at 121 while mages are all in 122. That can be skill based already and (app support-based) since PC users have stuff going in for them and some that do not (some bugs).

There's no sense to talk about PvP balances if it's not even out yet. Like how much do you think are classes going to mitigate from each other's damage? How much does it really take someone to kill one on one? To be honest, BH is not really an OP class as far as I'm concerned when it comes to PvP since people can just get a ton of Move speed and run away waiting for cooldowns. Assassinate is so easy to dodge, Smokescreen just makes you invisible but (shouldn't make you invulnerable as far as AOE skill damage is concerned-PvP).

Just imagine a frost element user mage casting blizzard in your area to slow you down then blink towards youto use frost nova (6 seconds) then freeze you do death with 3x damage frost bolts while not being able to move? Not to mention the combination of the time altering skill mages have (which shouldn't be allowed in PvP really-unless they reduce the effectiveness.

Not to mention the Warrior's devastating strike 1 hit KO'ing a BH or Mage that doesn't have high Vit, LOL.

Oh....valid point!
mages suffer a lot more from the PC mouse bug!
As a mostly BH player I almost never use secondary attack focusing on scatter (been playing with it to pull enemies off other groups and close packed groups appart but that's it)
Which could GREATLY effect the ability to reach last last highest trials....

Warriors though....warriors suck.
They are really missing something(s)
Lack DPS, lack of effects that just REALLY seem to tear through groups
No set gear that really stands out for people

[Cultusfit]

BH isn't a mage. It isn't meant to be played like a mage. A mage needs the extra range & spread of AB because they'll die if a mob so much as sneezes at them. BH is meant to be played as that 'bobbing and weaving' character. That's why Scatter is fine as is, with the range it is. And why Assault 4 has the speed bonus: so they can get in quick, get scatter shots off, get out, and line up snipe shots.

Plus it has RF which helps to rapidly reset cooldowns. And one of the specials that assault BHs use is Smoke Screen... which completely shuts down enemies for a few seconds. Snipe also shuts down enemies for a few seconds.

Pretty sure it's working as intended. And the fact is that BHs are currently ruling the global LB (TL122). So there's gotta be something working with their skillset...

Works as intended. Dev's have even said so.
i wouldn't MIND a slight push up on range, nothing like letal shot, just for mobile uses to get better usage. As it is it's super hard for many mobile players to even precive using it.
I think only real problem with it's range comes in the way rapid fire works. The character doesn't seem to KNOW his limited range and if one enemy is closer than a few behind it will still spread RF out hitting only the one in front while rest fall short.

RF TARGETING while using scatter should account for it's range. That'd be only change I would actually REAALY want.

Snipe...I dunno why it goes into the ground some times....if that was where my mouse was OKAY it's where I was aiming. But some times I put my mouse way on other side group hoping to get them all for it to hit one enemy and vanish....ugh

[Suzy.Bae]

I could see PvP just turning into a whale trap. I already have my suspicions that the normal LBs were only included to fuel the illusion of competition/relative deprivation between players because that *always* helps to push IAPs in any freemium model. PvP does the same thing to a greater degree by making the competition between players even more direct and face-to-face. Then when you consider the fact that PC players are ranked alongside mobile players despite the significant mechanical advantages that the former enjoys...

So yeah, I'm skeptical of a possible PvP mode too, to put it lightly. Wallet warriors tend to run amok in freemium PvP. Now, clan vs. clan would be kinda cool, like with 4v4 instead of 1v1 (various modes like CTF and DM), and Championship-type events for clans. But there would have to be a LOT of balancing either way for any kind of direct PvP, probably to the point where regular mode and PvP mode would be using two drastically different sets of mechanics and values.

Co-op would indeed be an easier roll-out since it would just be single-player amplified, but it would still be a good idea to hang more on it: Things like co-op-only modes/events (like Apocalypse and Nightmare mode were on SAS:ZA4), and maps like huge dungeons and boss raids designed to make co-op really shine. Just dropping it into the normal game would be fine and good and all, but it should also be treated as a foundation in itself, just like PvP.

Oh, and still wanting to hear more BH ideas. Might start adding to the OP as we go.

I still don't think that Trials being reached is the best way to check and balance the classes.

As far as trial achievement goes, you have 2 options. Either to nerf the class who's leading or buff the other classes so they can reach it too but before any of those are done, you gotta put into consideration how many of ''that class'' is really leading the leaderboards. It's not a question of one BH for example getting Trial 123 with the remaining BH's at 121 while mages are all in 122. That can be skill based already and (app support-based) since PC users have stuff going in for them and some that do not (some bugs).

There's no sense to talk about PvP balances if it's not even out yet. Like how much do you think are classes going to mitigate from each other's damage? How much does it really take someone to kill one on one? To be honest, BH is not really an OP class as far as I'm concerned when it comes to PvP since people can just get a ton of Move speed and run away waiting for cooldowns. Assassinate is so easy to dodge, Smokescreen just makes you invisible but (shouldn't make you invulnerable as far as AOE skill damage is concerned-PvP).

Just imagine a frost element user mage casting blizzard in your area to slow you down then blink towards youto use frost nova (6 seconds) then freeze you do death with 3x damage frost bolts while not being able to move? Not to mention the combination of the time altering skill mages have (which shouldn't be allowed in PvP really-unless they reduce the effectiveness.

Not to mention the Warrior's devastating strike 1 hit KO'ing a BH or Mage that doesn't have high Vit, LOL.

[Melchiah]

To get an idea of how PvP will be between the 3 classes, have a look at how much time each class needs to bring a boss down. As it stands, time to kill all mobs in a high TL Vs time to kill the boss, is something like 85/15 for the BH and close to 50/50 for the Mage.
Then there's the need for a complete rework of the crowd control features for each class. How many lightning "slowballs" is a Mage going to be able to launch before a 2k AR Assault BH permamutes him to the wall?

I don't want to be a pessimist and I hope the dev team proves me wrong and comes up with a kickass PvP mode, but I have seen the dream before (*cough*D3*cough*) so I don't get my hopes up too much.

Co-op is a different fruit though and it should require a different type of effort (more on the game's engine and less on balance) and it should hopefully be delivered earlier/easier.

I could see PvP just turning into a whale trap. I already have my suspicions that the normal LBs were only included to fuel the illusion of competition/relative deprivation between players because that *always* helps to push IAPs in any freemium model. PvP does the same thing to a greater degree by making the competition between players even more direct and face-to-face. Then when you consider the fact that PC players are ranked alongside mobile players despite the significant mechanical advantages that the former enjoys...

So yeah, I'm skeptical of a possible PvP mode too, to put it lightly. Wallet warriors tend to run amok in freemium PvP. Now, clan vs. clan would be kinda cool, like with 4v4 instead of 1v1 (various modes like CTF and DM), and Championship-type events for clans. But there would have to be a LOT of balancing either way for any kind of direct PvP, probably to the point where regular mode and PvP mode would be using two drastically different sets of mechanics and values.

Co-op would indeed be an easier roll-out since it would just be single-player amplified, but it would still be a good idea to hang more on it: Things like co-op-only modes/events (like Apocalypse and Nightmare mode were on SAS:ZA4), and maps like huge dungeons and boss raids designed to make co-op really shine. Just dropping it into the normal game would be fine and good and all, but it should also be treated as a foundation in itself, just like PvP.

Oh, and still wanting to hear more BH ideas. Might start adding to the OP as we go.

[Chosen]

To get an idea of how PvP will be between the 3 classes, have a look at how much time each class needs to bring a boss down. As it stands, time to kill all mobs in a high TL Vs time to kill the boss, is something like 85/15 for the BH and close to 50/50 for the Mage.
Then there's the need for a complete rework of the crowd control features for each class. How many lightning "slowballs" is a Mage going to be able to launch before a 2k AR Assault BH permamutes him to the wall?

I don't want to be a pessimist and I hope the dev team proves me wrong and comes up with a kickass PvP mode, but I have seen the dream before (*cough*D3*cough*) so I don't get my hopes up too much.

Co-op is a different fruit though and it should require a different type of effort (more on the game's engine and less on balance) and it should hopefully be delivered earlier/easier.

[Rytrik]

Well I think if we're talking about mobile device - mages, then it's not bad and you won't beat PC user trials via mobile anyway and can't dodge as slick as a PC user so it makes sense to get Vitality (if you don't have celestials yet).

Some extra vitality is fine as a mobile mage. Armor is never ever a useful stat to stack in the current meta. Especially as a mage.

[Melchiah]

BH could benefit from some sort of agility-tank synergies on the sets, making some neglected stats more impactful and relevant. A few examples of 4-piece bonuses or other things:

Two Dodge attempts when attacked vs one.

Double Dodge Rating.

A stat % as a bonus to dodge rating.

Dodge Rating total added to another stat.

Dodge rating procs on hit/kill/crit.

Dodge buffs would fit the Class. My BH has a Dodge percentage somewhere in the range of 35% and I haven't paid any attention to boosting that stat at all.

BH is very much as fragile a Class as Mage. My BH has about 40K more T than my Mage, but he still gets one-shotted when running 10 TLs lower than the Mage. Summoned meatshields would benefit BH.

[Suzy.Bae]

Except the timer... because you have to give up damage to add vit and armor (outside of celestials) which means that you won't have the necessary damage to clear the trial mobs & beat the boss.

Well I think if we're talking about mobile device - mages, then it's not bad and you won't beat PC user trials via mobile anyway and can't dodge as slick as a PC user so it makes sense to get Vitality (if you don't have celestials yet).