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Mukraiser / Elban's Scepter - Minions summoned

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    Mukraiser / Elban's Scepter - Minions summoned

    Hi All,

    I have questions re Mukraiser / Elban's Scepter.

    Does anyone what damage is done by the skeletons or merloks summoned?
    One also needs to factor in the number of these summoned after each attack/kill. Is the maximum number of these?

    I want to try to work out whether this damage is greater than an Axe that dropped that does 1786 damage and perhaps that trumps all of them... Surely, this is better than any Deirdre (max 1553 * 1.1 = 1708), but I'm not sure about Mukraiser and Elban's Scepter... (max damage 1459 pre additional damage from minions)

    #2
    I use that weapon so enemies will be busy attacking my merloks.

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      #3
      Originally posted by Doctor888 View Post
      .. Surely, this is better than any Deirdre...)
      Pfft.

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        #4
        Originally posted by AimEoN View Post
        I use that weapon so enemies will be busy attacking my merloks.
        Good point AimEoN - hadn't factored in the distraction factor

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          #5
          Since the OP kind of refers to the 'math' of how analyzing and comparing much damage each weapon does, I'm interested.

          First, let's agree that a Muk is preferred over an Elban, because a Muk will summon more minions. Hmmm maybe not... if the Elban Skeletons do a lot more damage "per minion" or have a lot more HP/armor "per minion" than the Muk Merloks... If that were the case, maybe the Elban's equalizes in some way.

          Maybe the easy part is the Deidre where we can fairly safely assume that the damage is +10%. Has this been tested and proven?

          As to "minion damage" we would need to separate out the damage of the skeletons from the Necromonicon. Tests would need to be done with & without the Necro vs. with & without the Mukraiser or Elban or Deidre. That would isolate just the damage from the merlok minions of the Mukraiser.

          Once some numbers are generated from the Training Grounds, one would have to normalize for uncontrollable differences such as different base damage of each weapon. And different stats.

          I dont think either Trials stat screen nor Training Grounds stat screen, gives the summoned minion damage. Just the "companions".

          One person probably doesn't have enough variety of gear to do all the testing. We would need a controlled method that is repeated by several people will to help and report back the data.

          Nhat any ideas?
          Last edited by Coda; 07-24-2018, 04:32 PM.
          VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381 -|- Gethi, mage, & Kisheli, XP mage

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            #6
            But does damage versus trash even matter?

            The final answer regarding usefullness, for me at least: Muk summons on attack, Elban summons on kill. This means Mukraiser is cranking out hassle-damage meatshields 100% of the time while fighting, even against bosses. Elban doesn't kick in until things are already dead, never against a boss.

            Use Mukraiser for distraction and ablative armor, and consider the miniscule damage a bonus.

            But don't let me stop you; science it up!

            Edit: And Diedre, adding effectively 10% more auto-attacks with an un-killable 100% uptime, should be the highest damage. I would be highly surprised if Muk minions get anywhere close.

            Edit#2: OP, because every attack/skill scales off of weapon damage, I personally used the highest damage, unnamed weapons I could find until I could make a Celestial Mukraiser with equivalent damage.
            Last edited by Trouble; 07-24-2018, 03:13 PM.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Coda View Post
              Since the OP kind of refers to the 'math' of how analyzing and comparing much damage each weapon does, I'm interested.
              Haha!

              I've really enjoyed reading your posts, Coda, and Nhat, on the maths behind it all.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Trouble View Post
                But does damage versus trash even matter?
                I think the OP is asking that very question and looking for "proof" of the answer.

                All damage matters, whether against the mobs before the boss, or the boss. Higher damage means faster progress and a shorter completion time.

                I don't think there are very many Mukraisers on the top of the leaderboards, neither Mage nor Warrior. But I haven't looked in a while.

                However, other things we thought we were sure of, were wrong. Remember when everybody "knew for sure" that Frost Beam was the best vs. Blink?

                That's why I like projects like this -- if it can be "proven" -- which weapon does more damage.

                Another way to look at it, might be, to determine whether the Mukraiser minions absorb enough incoming damage that one can lighten up on Toughness and then invest those stat points that were in Vitality, into Power/Haste/CR.




                VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381 -|- Gethi, mage, & Kisheli, XP mage

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                  #9
                  In my purely anecdotal evidence, my merlocks would do about 5-8% of my total damage in the T90-95 range. I was not running a Necronomicon, so all the summoned minions were merlocks. They did similar damage as my mirror did, but, I admit that I was not the best at keeping my mirrors out all the time.

                  I'm also pretty sure that there is a limit on summoned minions. Whether it comes from the Mukraiser or Necro shouldn't matter, you're only going to get so many out there. So if you run both, you aren't getting any more than you would with just one, exception being at bosses where only the Mukraiser will summon them.

                  In my experience, the merlocks stand in a more useful alignment than the skeletons do. They tend to stand close together, about halfway between where I like to stand and the enemies, allowing them to take a lot of shots. The skeletons just don't work as well for me, but that might be just my preference.
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by tshell View Post
                    In my purely anecdotal evidence, my merlocks would do about 5-8% of my total damage in the T90-95 range.
                    Any screenshot for this?

                    I found they usually only do 100k DPS for me (with muk)
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                      #11
                      This is relevant to my interests, I'm debating between Mukraiser and Deidre's for my mage. The Mukraiser is fun, especially since you end up with a whole army when combined with the Necronomicon, but I suspect that Deidre's is "better" overall.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Purple Potato View Post
                        Any screenshot for this?

                        I found they usually only do 100k DPS for me (with muk)
                        No, I was kind of surprised they did that much though. It was on my ANB mage and I can't see the trial results from that anymore. But, it could have also been because I'm not that experienced with mage play style too. I watched your pulling videos and tried to replicate getting those massive pulls, but I just ended up going slower overall due to dying all the time. So my workaround was to do only a few groups at a time, that may be why my results aren't as expected. I'm working against smaller mobs than the typical mage player would.

                        It probably doesn't scale well either. As in, the more damage you dish out, the less percentage your merlocks/skeletons are doing in comparison. So me, being not as skilled in mage, would have less character damage than if you played the same character. So my merlocks do a higher percentage of damage than yours would.
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Coda View Post

                          I think the OP is asking that very question and looking for "proof" of the answer.

                          All damage matters, whether against the mobs before the boss, or the boss. Higher damage means faster progress and a shorter completion time.

                          I don't think there are very many Mukraisers on the top of the leaderboards, neither Mage nor Warrior. But I haven't looked in a while.

                          However, other things we thought we were sure of, were wrong. Remember when everybody "knew for sure" that Frost Beam was the best vs. Blink?

                          That's why I like projects like this -- if it can be "proven" -- which weapon does more damage.

                          Another way to look at it, might be, to determine whether the Mukraiser minions absorb enough incoming damage that one can lighten up on Toughness and then invest those stat points that were in Vitality, into Power/Haste/CR.



                          Yes, the question was mostly rhetorical, although I'll submit that damage vs the boss is of the highest importance, especially for a mage.

                          It feels like itll be difficult to prove anything for certain when kiting style combined with minions made from balsa wood are big determiners in success. And then we start heading down the rabbit hole of of sidekick auras and their effects on summons. Is it better to stack three archers to haste those javelin throwing toads? But what about the sustain they get from warrior+healer auras???

                          And what about the cost to all active skills and procs if you sacrifice any damage % to attain or buff these summons?

                          Frost Beam was always a bad idea because it involves a self-imposed root. Time Warp increases survivability, but it doesn't slow the clock, making Blizzard DPS much more valuable.
                          Last edited by Trouble; 07-24-2018, 07:39 PM.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Trouble View Post

                            Use Mukraiser for distraction and ablative armor, and consider the miniscule damage a bonus.
                            That's what i do. Great shield against projectiles, and still stand around the dragon when she spits fireballs.
                            I like a lot! But consider that my wizard is literally a glass cannon...

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                              #15
                              (What am I getting myself into... )

                              Give me a few days - at least now I know what to do with my Legendary Cubes from ANB #3 . Was going to go back to testing the Warrior's abilities, but since this have been "requested" I'll take a look. Been avoiding those weapons to be honest, don't know how my phone's going to hold up with all the summons.
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