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Simplified Way to Compare Crafting Resource Data

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  • Simplified Way to Compare Crafting Resource Data

    In trying to compare data from collecting crafting resources, at first it was complicated. Then it occurred to me that we can greatly simplify the comparisons, by converting all of the more complex drops, back to their equivalents in the most basic raw materials. There are only 5:
    • Gold
    • Lesser Essences ... convert all other Essences, back to "lesser" plus gold ; sum together all essences
    • Silver Ore ... convert S.Dust & S.Ornaments back to "ore" plus gold
    • Base Materials ... Leather (B.Hunters tend to get more) + Iron (Warriors get more) + Cloth (Mages) ... sum together
    • Mark of Titans
    All other more "complex" materials can be converted into the above 5 materials.

    Example #1: Greater Shadow Essence
    = 1000 gold + 10 Shadow Essence
    = 1000 gold + 10 * (100 gold + 10 Lesser Shadow Essence)
    = 2000 gold + 100 Lesser Shadow Essence

    Example #2: Enchanted Leather
    = 1000 gold + 1 Silver Ornament + 5 Leathers
    = 1000 gold + 1 * (1000 gold + 3 Silver Ore) + 5 Leathers
    = 2000 gold + 3 Silver Ore + 5 Leathers

    Spirits and everything else are handled in a similar manner.

    The full table:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Crafting Equivalence.png Views:	1 Size:	11.3 KB ID:	123367

    Using this method we can report only 5 numbers from Z runs of Map X at Y difficulty, using some play style (full clear, zerg to boss, something in-between).

    When comparing data, as pointed out to me by UmbraDei, it's more important to record data for a certain # of runs than it is a certain amount of time. This is because, build & gear differences, CL point differences, etc. all impact how fast "you" can run a level compared to how fast "I" can run the level. But we should both get a very similar amount of resources (on average) from a certain number of runs of the same map, at the same difficulty, run with a similar style. Taking that one step further, technically, the only way to truly compare "your" data with "mine" is we both would need to run full clears since that is the only style that is repeatably consistent.

    After knowing the averages "per run" then of course one may convert to "per time" for your build/style, whatever. After all, if a map takes 1/3 the time but yields 1/2 the resources (etc), it's a more efficient place to farm. So, we do still need to record the in-game time!

    I built a simple spreadsheet to do the calculations. It could be expanded and improved. Hopefully I've put it in the cloud correctly, and interested people can access it here. [Please let me know if you see errors, etc., since I wrote it in Excel and simply uploaded it -- sometimes Google Sheets or OpenOffice formulas, formatting, etc. can differ and break a file.]

    I'm looking forward to comments and seeing some data. I'm going to redo mine and post it soon (Morgenheim, D.Catacombs, TBD, SoA, and Trials somewhere in the 80s & 90s).

    P.S. it goes without saying, we should report gemstones too, as usual in equivalent # of roughs.

    EDIT: when reporting data, need to document your %EG level. However we can only partly normalize the data because %EG affects gold drops but not the above calculation of "equivalent gold" from salvaged materials.

    EDIT2: Also document Mastery Level since Perks affect drops and salvaging.
    Last edited by Coda; 01-05-2019, 11:24 PM.
    VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381 -|- Gethi, mage, & Kisheli, XP mage

  • #2
    Great job! Truly agree with calculating everything "per run"! You know what you will finally get and decide which map to prefer according to your case.

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    • #3
      I started doing that with essences, similar to how we compare stones, but I'm glad you've taken it one step further. I just completed a full clear of normal story to quantify materials gained and haven't yet analyzed the results. However...you're better off zerging to Morgenheim or catacombs because acts 1-3 are worthless.
      Dyoma Crown
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      Mage: 118
      Warrior (DW): 115
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      Warrior (SW): 112

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      • #4
        Yup, this is why I changed my methodology and went to sets of 20,and broke my findings down to a per run basis.

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        • #5
          Trouble With sets or subgroups of 'n' we get an average, but not a standard deviation. That makes it very hard to 'compare' things (statistical T-test) because you need to understand the standard deviation (variability = breadth of the distribution) as well as the mean.

          I too, have been collecting data from 'n' runs ... though I keep track of time via the booster too. In the past with gemstones, I merely estimated the variability as a percentage of the mean. But, that proved to be inaccurate, and it was grossly inaccurate for infrequent drops like gemstones. Thus, I suspect that will be the case for Mark of Titans as well.

          So, I plan to collect some individual run data. Not just cuz "I like math" but because my goals are mainly:

          - which map is best for Essences (probably 4-47 Morgenheim) ...both on a "per run" and a "per in-game time" basis

          - which difficulty level is best (fastest or most efficient) ... again for Essences. In other words, does Normal yield as much as Legendary.

          - which map or Trial is best for Mark of Titans. You get one dropped by the boss, occasionally (even in 4-47), and then you also can get one out of a salvaged Legendary, again not sure how often. Maybe the probability is non-zero for all gear qualities, though much lower for Epic --> Rare --> Uncommon --> Common.

          Me personally, I don't need gold: I have 70 million and am already at ML50. And I seem to get enough silver. Then, since crafted gear sucks, I don't need any of the basic raw materials either (leather, iron, cloth). It is only a matter of time until most players, who play regularly, will be in this same position.

          So, my focus is on essences, MoT, and of course, gemstones ... though, less so lately since I can make topaz and amethyst out of diamonds.

          The exception to the above focus, is ANB events, when one needs everything. So I will be collecting the data on all the items ... once doing so it's not hard to record a couple more numbers. But no, not apples/potions LOL.

          The spreadsheet needs to be enhanced for data collection as it's not very helpful in that aspect. If there are any willing collaborators, I can share the one linked above to a limited group of people as a directly editable file. Of course you can always download a copy and edit it on your own, and then re-share it.
          VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381 -|- Gethi, mage, & Kisheli, XP mage

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          • #6
            Coda yes, averaging per run does not explain the loot table, and what can be considered min/max, or what is even possible. With 4-47, the mats you are interested in largely depend on the quantity of purple drops, and whether they are named (purple Integralas can salvage MoT, for example). Once you don't need gold anymore (or even if you do), 4-47's biggest real contribution, and value while boosted, is the gemstone per second ratio which can be achieved (everything else is just extra), as 1.2-1.5 gemstones per second is, in my experience, quite good. If you want high end mats, you are better off pounding trials in the 80-90-100 range, depending on your CL and ability. At least, this is what I am seeing.

            It really just depends what you want to find out. My last set of 60x 4-47 runs was done out of a desire to establish a baseline of the average drops from a full clear, including all chests. This gave me what I needed to compare results with skipping the chests, to see how much the per-run average is affected, so I could see the real value of changing my runs, once I started breaking things down to a per-second rate.
            Last edited by Trouble; 01-05-2019, 06:10 PM.

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            • #7
              There is also a difference in salavging set items and regular items. I still think if you can run 90+ trials in 1m-1m 25s you are at the best place for farming. If not level 80 trial is where 3 legendaries begin to drop and if you have a good build can run in a minute. I am running trial 80 in 2m and I have exp gear and still a lot of gear I started with + messed up jewelry. Getting legendary sets is where it is at and doing it as fast as you can. I posted my stats on 40 salvaged reg legendaries.

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              • #8
                one would also need to take mastery level into account if you are comparing between players. there are perks giving double for salvaging and higher chance of material drops from chests.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by duckel View Post
                  one would also need to take mastery level into account if you are comparing between players. there are perks giving double for salvaging and higher chance of material drops from chests.
                  Noted in OP already
                  VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381 -|- Gethi, mage, & Kisheli, XP mage

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                  • #10
                    Number of runs also is different since some people full clear (open all chests), while others run through and complete the level quickly.
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                    • #11
                      I'd say if your after gold and gem, don't bother opening chest (open those that is within the way). If you are after materials, run without boost, open every chest. But this is solely based on my experience, I could be wrong or this might not be true to all.
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                      CL1K+

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Purple Potato View Post
                        Number of runs also is different since some people full clear (open all chests), while others run through and complete the level quickly.
                        Yep, as mentioned the only truly repeatable play style is full clear which takes longer, but would definitively answer which map "stores/holds" more of "x".
                        VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381 -|- Gethi, mage, & Kisheli, XP mage

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by andrewcb88 View Post
                          Getting legendary sets is where it is at and doing it as fast as you can.
                          How did you come to that conclusion? To what other data did you compare your Legendary salvage?
                          VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381 -|- Gethi, mage, & Kisheli, XP mage

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Coda View Post

                            How did you come to that conclusion? To what other data did you compare your Legendary salvage?
                            You can get 3 legendaries in 1.5m(you can not me) or even less from trials. I salvaged I think it was 48 legendaries and got a ton of stuff, esp the higher up essences. Set/named items seemed to give more too. So someone running 90+ trials getting set items and 3 legendaries per run in 1.5m seems like the best bet imo. I don't have the gear to try this at these trial levels. Just find a lvl 90 trial you can do in 1.5m or less and then run it until you're full and salvage it and see what you get. You are getting far more legendaries than you are epics in this amount of time doing just plain story runs. And from common to rare is a pretty big difference when salvaging, idk about epics but I am sure it is and so the same must be true with legendaries. I made a post of what I got with the 48 or whatever amount of legendaries I salvaged at once. I haven't played in some time so I forgot the essences I was getting that you don't get from common/rare items and maybe not even from epic or not as much.

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