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Using points in AR is useless, don't do it

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  • #46
    Out of combat time, where you are not attacking and getting alacrity, is a thing. As is time spent running and kiting.

    I submit that if you are already at or above 7 attacks/second, and forgoing AR, stacking your extra 1000 points into Power will be better for both basic attack dps, and definitely your spells, depending on how far into Haste diminishing returns you are.
    Last edited by Trouble; 03-30-2019, 03:55 AM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Trouble View Post
      Out of combat refresh rate, where you are not attacking and getting alacrity, is a thing.

      I submit that if you are already at or above 7 attacks/second, and forgoing AR, stacking your extra 1000 points into Power will be better for both basic attack dps, and definitely your spells, depending on how far into Haste diminishing returns you are.
      I prefer: 7 AS for Mage, 7.50-8.00 for BH and 8.00 for Warrior. Thats what I'm running.
      The more AS you have, the more RotS triggers you get. I am always less in my average damage because I use more points in haste than I should use, when I would maximise my damage. I think it's better, but sadly RotS don't get counted in average damage.
      left the game

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      • #48
        I do, too. Having less than 7 AS makes me feel horrid. But... How much power do you have? What % does 1000 add?

        My view is skewed by falling into the fallacy of putting zero power on gear, way too early. In sympathy with our OP's rage at AR, I nerfed myself pretty hard about a year ago trying to follow guides I didn't understand were designed for 110+ and an appropriate CL. I had all the rights stats and no power. It has taken time to fix it.

        Under CL 1500, I'd definitely say 35%-40% AR, 6+ AS, 30-35% CR, 1000%+ CD, 1500-2k LoH is totally acceptable, with everything else in power.

        Under CL 800, even lower overall, but power and haste are still a major priority.

        Before 800 you want P/H/XP on everything piece you can get, much more than CR, CD, or AR.

        You really just need every stat in place. No one stat is all-important. It is all about having the right, realistic minimum break points to ensure your bases are covered, and putting them in the most efficient place. DPS, spike damage, buffs, debuffs, CC, sustain, soak...

        Last edited by Trouble; 03-30-2019, 02:29 AM.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Trouble View Post
          I do, too. Having less than 7 AS makes me feel horrid. But... How much power do you have? What % does 1000 add?

          My view is skewed by falling into the fallacy of putting zero power on gear, way too early. In sympathy with our OP's rage at AR, I nerfed myself pretty hard about a year ago trying to follow guides I didn't understand were designed for 110+ and an appropriate CL. I had all the rights stats and no power. It has taken time to fix it.

          Under CL 1500, I'd definitely say 35%-40% AR, 6+ AS, 30-35% CR, 1000%+ CD, 1500-2k LoH is totally acceptable, with everything else in power.

          Under CL 800, even lower overall, but power and haste are still a major priority.

          Before 800 you want P/H/XP on everything piece you can get, much more than CR, CD, or AR.

          You really just need every stat in place. No one stat is all-important. It is all about having the right, realistic minimum break points to ensure your bases are covered, and putting them in the most efficient place. DPS, spike damage, buffs, debuffs, CC, sustain, soak...
          Remember your testing of Epic gear for clearing the Celestials in Gold league? JIMHO your CL1500 is more like CL500. CR/CD is what kills elites and bosses and actually CR/AR may be reversed. Looking at your reports of clearing the level 490K DPS while i had mobs that wouldn't die with 750K drove this home. You take power off and buff CR closer to 40% dropping overall DPS on the Character tab and your character actually plows through mobs and bosses faster.

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          • #50
            Using a PC combined with high AR makes a huge difference. I don't feel like CR/CD made a difference in that scenario. But to be fair, I do not emphasize CR as much as some people do.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by ྿༻Travis༺྿ (Support Mgr.) View Post
              One of my favorite quotes:

              "As a general rule, it is wise not to feed the trolls on internet forums."

              -Abraham Lincoln
              Yeah, right Mr Mersenne Prime !

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              • #52
                TG doesn't accurately represent the mob density of a skilled mage in a trial, nor the increased damage from abilities as the HP greatly exceed the one-hit kill threshold, requiring multiple casts to kill single monsters. If you'd like realistic empirical testing, drop five or so trials below your max and record boss summon time for >50 trials at each of your test scenarios. A larger sample set of realistic comparison from which you can reduce to simply an average and standard deviation would better quantify your claims.

                Of note, pack-to-pack style would not be beneficial for this test as the true benefit of abilities comes from mob density.

                Looking forward to results instead of claims.
                Dyoma Crown
                Dyoma Crown Total: 347

                Mage: 119
                Warrior (DW): 115
                BH: 113

                Warrior (SW): 112

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Ozymandius View Post

                  Thanks for the information! The vitality boost makes sense. I am already feeling the need to boost vitality, so I am probably not too far behind you in needing to start thinking about changes that are needed at the next level. Are you running Endurance or Tough as Nails?
                  Follow up: Lowering AR gave me the boost I needed.

                  I swapped AR with VIT on a new neck piece, giving me some room to swap VIT gems for power gems.

                  The plan from here - Craft a new piece to reduce my AR by another 90 in place of LoH. For that I'll have to wait on the next event and hope I can earn a celestial box!


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                  • #54
                    OMG..wat an excellence warrior you hv over there Hachi err Spyclown...not far to become king of the warrior...congrats
                    Whirlwind SW trial 128 in..9:218m....timin decrease a bit "like a snail"..well still with a few crap gears.. (PC only)

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Spyclown View Post

                      Follow up: Lowering AR gave me the boost I needed.

                      I swapped AR with VIT on a new neck piece, giving me some room to swap VIT gems for power gems.

                      The plan from here - Craft a new piece to reduce my AR by another 90 in place of LoH. For that I'll have to wait on the next event and hope I can earn a celestial box!

                      This is useful information, thank you.

                      My long term goal has been to make a full celestial suit for my Warrior once the balance patch (soon™) arrives. I've mostly been experimenting and hoarding wealth, establishing farming toons, building up CLs, making BiS jewelry variants, and waiting. It is nice to see where your regearing efforts are headed.

                      How low are you taking your AR? 40%? Less?

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Trouble View Post

                        This is useful information, thank you.

                        My long term goal has been to make a full celestial suit for my Warrior once the balance patch (soon™) arrives. I've mostly been experimenting and hoarding wealth, establishing farming toons, building up CLs, making BiS jewelry variants, and waiting. It is nice to see where your regearing efforts are headed.

                        How low are you taking your AR? 40%? Less?
                        Your most welcome - Love this community and willing the help and share info when I can.

                        Current AR 43% (1118). My goal is to just have over 1000 base AR (1029 or 41% to be exact). In conjunction with Integralas Mantle I should be bouncing off of AR cap most fights. We will see how it goes from there.

                        Whats this balance patch you speak of? Any info yet?

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                        • #57
                          A DW warrior doesn't need as much AR as mages or BHs, mainly because he can keep CDs low by having battle rage permanently active when engaged in combat.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by hades0505 View Post
                            A DW warrior doesn't need as much AR as mages or BHs, mainly because he can keep CDs low by having battle rage permanently active when engaged in combat.
                            So there is no confusion, we're talking about Ability Rate.

                            Battle Rage is a "must have" ability regardless.I believe it only effects attack speed due to the +haste. Unless I am missing something.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Spyclown View Post

                              So there is no confusion, we're talking about Ability Rate.

                              Battle Rage is a "must have" ability regardless.I believe it only effects attack speed due to the +haste. Unless I am missing something.
                              Battle Rage drastically increases your attacks per second, which indirectly affects your alacrity and thus the chance of resetting ability cooldowns. So basically, a dual wield warrior with Battle Rage (iirc, shield warrior doesn't use BR in the meta build), has almost a constant Atk Speed buff that allows the build to be less dependant on stacking AR, leaving more margin for other stats.

                              So yeah, we're talking about Ability Rate, but about different classes/builds. OP's (troll) rant is about mage, together with assault BH the most AR-dependent class.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Spyclown View Post

                                Your most welcome - Love this community and willing the help and share info when I can.

                                Current AR 43% (1118). My goal is to just have over 1000 base AR (1029 or 41% to be exact). In conjunction with Integralas Mantle I should be bouncing off of AR cap most fights. We will see how it goes from there.

                                Whats this balance patch you speak of? Any info yet?
                                I have not seen anything in many months. The last post on this was a loose road map for releases. The only things I know for sure which were mentioned was overall balance tweaks, and the possibility of 1+ more sets for each class. I looked on announcements, but do not see it anymore. Some of the others may know more, or if that post is still around.

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