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Using points in AR is useless, don't do it

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  • #61
    Originally posted by hades0505 View Post

    Battle Rage drastically increases your attacks per second, which indirectly affects your alacrity and thus the chance of resetting ability cooldowns. So basically, a dual wield warrior with Battle Rage (iirc, shield warrior doesn't use BR in the meta build), has almost a constant Atk Speed buff that allows the build to be less dependant on stacking AR, leaving more margin for other stats.

    So yeah, we're talking about Ability Rate, but about different classes/builds. OP's (troll) rant is about mage, together with assault BH the most AR-dependent class.
    That's a great point and really haven't thought that far into it. It does make good sense.

    If what you are saying actually works as intended in the game, I should be able to lower my AR well under 40% and see no adverse effects.
    Sounds like the trick is going to be finding an AR level that matches ones play style.

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    • #62
      Also, the "AR-sweet spot" might/should differ from PC to mobile, as on PC the mechanics are basically smashing 3 buttons in the right order (sometimes not even that).

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      • #63
        IMO

        BR is typically used with 2J+4A SW builds, from what I've seen. Shield Block is seen as a massive DPS loss, and shines the most with Defender set.

        BR's 1000 haste is really only 0.75-1.5 attacks/second, depending on where you're at. Diminishing returns from Haste are painful. The major offset you do gain from BR is the boss fight; your archer companions are most likely dead, and BR helps keep your AS at acceptable levels.

        This is where the AR debate for Warrior should really be, because the boss fight is really all that matters. What uptime % for BR do you need to function, and how many attributes can you afford to sacrifice to get there?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by hades0505 View Post
          Also, the "AR-sweet spot" might/should differ from PC to mobile, as on PC the mechanics are basically smashing 3 buttons in the right order (sometimes not even that).
          Having all of your skills on an effective 1-2 second cooldown is worth it on a PC where you can mash buttons with ease. On mobile, this is often faster than you can make gestures, and seeing your screen is hindered by your hand frantically drawing symbols... Your hand makes a better door than a window!

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          • #65
            [QUOTE=Coda: Like Mark Twain said...

            [/QUOTE]

            ...another way to look at it is: "When a wise man and an idiot argue, a bystander cannot tell which is which."

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Trouble View Post
              IMO

              BR is typically used with 2J+4A SW builds, from what I've seen. Shield Block is seen as a massive DPS loss, and shines the most with Defender set.

              BR's 1000 haste is really only 0.75-1.5 attacks/second, depending on where you're at. Diminishing returns from Haste are painful. The major offset you do gain from BR is the boss fight; your archer companions are most likely dead, and BR helps keep your AS at acceptable levels.

              This is where the AR debate for Warrior should really be, because the boss fight is really all that matters. What uptime % for BR do you need to function, and how many attributes can you afford to sacrifice to get there?
              BR can stack iirc

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Trouble View Post
                Before 800 you want P/H/XP on everything piece you can get, much more than CR, CD, or AR.
                Ah, I see. Thanks for the tip. This will be very helpful during ANB events since I have never top CL800 during any event. I've been crafting CD and CR into every empherical thus far (CD/CR/H/P on every piece). The next ANB, I'll replace CD and CR with something else.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by mousse View Post

                  Ah, I see. Thanks for the tip. This will be very helpful during ANB events since I have never top CL800 during any event. I've been crafting CD and CR into every empherical thus far (CD/CR/H/P on every piece). The next ANB, I'll replace CD and CR with something else.
                  Just keep in mind CD/CR are still very desirable stats. My experiences have shown me that neglecting power and haste can lead to extreme frustration. CR and CD are worthless without power and enough attacks/second.

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                  • #69
                    For mage, having 0 points in AR is basically the sweet spot. I noticed this in the gold ticket challenge when the top player had 0 AR. If all those points were used in haste and some into power, this would boost the **** out of singularities damage. If you had 7.5 APS + the 5% for AL with the extra damage you get from haste and power it would be like having a new character. The procs would be insane. If I removed my AR and added enough points for 7.5 APS and rest power I think singularity would easily do at least 50% damage. If you are doing 40B per at your trial level there is no reason it shouldn't go up to 60B with that much speed and power added. Then the procs would do 20-30% more damage and they do about half of what singularity does so from 20B to 30B. I say get your AR to 990(1 piece with 90AR) and with a IM you are around not the 1500 but 50%. 50% cool down is actually a little lower than 1500. You can figure out the exact amount by just adding 1 point into AR through CL until you get to 50% and see your total AR. For example, when I am going for a exact APS, I get close to it and then add in haste through CL 1 point at a time. When you get to say 6.99 APS, it can take 4 or so CL points. So how I see it also is you are wasting points if you are not at the exact CR and AR that it takes to get to your desired amount because it might cost 15 or so points for it to actually move up.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by andrewcb88 View Post
                      Pretty pissed that so called experts leave guides without thoroughly testing them out. First they tell you you need 1500 AR....ehhh wrong. They tell you you need 1500 despite integralas mantle...ehhh wrong. After making 3 perfect perfect jewelry with AR, getting AR on my celestial items and then figuring out this is pure BS is pretty nerve wrecking. First of all, there is almost no difference between 1500 physical points in AR and just integralas mantle with AR in CL. The amount of cast you get are almost the same. Add a few hundred AR and you get a little bit extra cast speed but not even worth it.

                      The cast spelling does not change. There will be a few of you who will go "yeah it does you get 20 singularities per x amount of time and only 19 for x amount of time" and let me start off by saying thanks you created this mess and cost a lot of us time, money equipment etc. etc.

                      For all the points you put in AR to just get a very tiny amount of boost in spells, you SHOULD JUST PUT IN HASTE. Attack speed does far more than AR plus it adds A TON of DAMAGE. If you just use integralas mantle and AR from your CL and put all those points into haste and have a 7.4-7.5 APS + even more speed when using lightning, your spells recover FASTER, you do more damage and you get ALL the benefits of more CD, LoH, knock back etc. etc.

                      AR is a useless stat, I have tested this, test it for yourself if you don't believe me, wasting 1000 points into AR is a complete waste of stats. Take your 6.67 APS or whatever it is and put 1000 stat points in that and tell me which is better. Hell put just 300-500 more in and then the rest to power and tell me how much more damage you do with getting FASTER spell recovery at the same time.

                      The thing is, you follow all these guides, waste your time and money trying to get these items, just for them to be wrong or maybe even straight up lying and then you find out it's all trash and there is no way for you to at least get replacement items.

                      Don't listen to 99% of these fools or you will end up building your character wrong. Take my advice or you will regret it.
                      What trial are you?
                      just curious.
                      Lord Emperor of Bridge Navigational Systems Engineer for:
                      Eternium 2: Rise of the bounty Hunters
                      see post:https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...pply-for-a-job
                      and https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...414-eternium-2

                      Do NOT hire Xagan! He works for the enemy!!!

                      Friend code: GEBA WABE WADI 4184

                      If it's spelled bad. Horrible Grammar. Random words. No photo I was talking about. Or cut off mid sentence...
                      It's my tablet, I'm sorry

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                      • #71
                        It works for me.
                        i wouldn't out any more into AR because of my physical limitations of being able to cast.
                        I would accept more haste if it came from somewhere, more for the recovery point than anything at this stage.

                        But I wouldn't choose power. The stats I have now no matter what an increase in CR or CD gets a higher return for the same number of points in that much power does whenever you just crank the basic numbers and average them out.
                        of course at that point I'm working on the law of averages but it is a law of averages.

                        Pretty much anything below trial 80 though I pump power and haste. That's typically higher the higher players get to the high trials early in an event.
                        But things really kind of switch up especially after about 110. just seems like no matter how many regular attacks you put out you just don't see any damage from it. And you end up doing pretty much everything you can to pump out specials.

                        Obviously it's going to vary depending on your class, personal play style and capabilities, and trial level. I got stuck at event once because I had too much AR for my CL, couldn't make up for the lack of power.

                        there's been several theory crafted alternate builds but I get to see any of them really rank high on the overall boards... Click image for larger version

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                        Lord Emperor of Bridge Navigational Systems Engineer for:
                        Eternium 2: Rise of the bounty Hunters
                        see post:https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...pply-for-a-job
                        and https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...414-eternium-2

                        Do NOT hire Xagan! He works for the enemy!!!

                        Friend code: GEBA WABE WADI 4184

                        If it's spelled bad. Horrible Grammar. Random words. No photo I was talking about. Or cut off mid sentence...
                        It's my tablet, I'm sorry

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                        • #72
                          Just did some number crunching

                          Current set up:
                          Cool down on rapid fire just under 5 seconds
                          8.1+(7/5)=9.5

                          ​​​​​​Plus AR improves alacrity. It's linear to 1500 which is why they say 1500, for optimizing. After that finishing returns.

                          Used optimizer took off gear blah blah.

                          Moving 1500 points of AR to haste:
                          9.77+(7/17)=10.18 attacks per second.

                          So I gain .68 attacks per second
                          Which is actually LESS due to the alacrity change.

                          Add in the loss of damage from the buffs you get from rapid fire and smoke screen.
                          And the double casting rate of snipe.
                          Loss of having dodge bonus twice as often.

                          And the crowd control?
                          All for attacks that individually do almost no visible damage at my trials?
                          1500 power might be more worth it, but you still time out. It's why stalker doesn't perform as well as assualt.
                          I have a stalker set that gets me above 3M sheet. I can't complete trial 104 because I run out of TIME just waiting to kill trash mobs while I attack nonstop.

                          Also, not sure when you started as meta has changed since the release of Garm and Kara. But used to BH always went for ~1700+ AR because of:



                          Even with +1500 haste AND power I don't think a zero AR BH can match that. Being an to shut down every boss for constant DPS is worth more than dealing DOUBLE the damage half the time while doing and risking attacks.

                          edit: retard moment, running the quick check I removed gear which includes assault set bonus of 50% so...
                          9.77+(7/7.5)=10.7
                          1.2 increase
                          Still not worth my double to smoke screens and double the Snipes
                          ​​​​​
                          Last edited by Cultusfit; 04-10-2019, 09:28 AM.
                          Lord Emperor of Bridge Navigational Systems Engineer for:
                          Eternium 2: Rise of the bounty Hunters
                          see post:https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...pply-for-a-job
                          and https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...414-eternium-2

                          Do NOT hire Xagan! He works for the enemy!!!

                          Friend code: GEBA WABE WADI 4184

                          If it's spelled bad. Horrible Grammar. Random words. No photo I was talking about. Or cut off mid sentence...
                          It's my tablet, I'm sorry

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Spyclown View Post
                            Whats this balance patch you speak of? Any info yet?
                            It's supposed to be coming soon (no "™").

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by ྿༻Travis༺྿ (Support Mgr.) View Post
                              72.6% of all statistics are made up.
                              There is a book, "How To Lie with Statistics". I think it is required reading by all political parties... :-)

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                              • #75
                                There was a statistician that drowned crossing a river... It was 3 feet deep on average
                                Whirlwind SW trial 128 in..7:40m....Nice ..well still with a few crap gears.. erm...fail to beat Garm at 129 tough...(PC only)

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