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    Veterancy Camping and Medal Farming

    I am wondering if this "technique / strategy" is what the Devs intended.

    I get the feeling that it might not have been - and it is possible it was anticipated and the initial splits were made to prevent it.

    Setting the Master league at >119 means that you can get 2 CT's and all you miss out on is the extra 35 Glory (which after a few ANB's might not really be necessary - particularly if you are only playing a single class).

    That means that you can just sit and camp in the Veteran League and get pretty much everything you might want. You can probably get more Medals (and probably more 'valuable' ones) in a single ANB than from the Season medals.

    It is just a bit interesting to me that there is a feature in this game where players are rewarded for intentionally NOT being the 'best' or even "their best" - the 'challenge' has become how to complete TL119 the fastest.

    I genuinely don't believe there is a single player who completed TL119 (and obtained both CT's ) who could not have completed TL120.

    I am sure that changing game dynamics often have unintended consequences of benefitting the resourceful. But a dynamic that rewards players for intentionally playing worse than they are capable of seems kind of odd to me.

    ... ktb

    #2
    Im interested in their point of view on this aswell. In moat games they call this twinking.

    Comment


    • Teebs
      Teebs commented
      Editing a comment
      Apart from the term (which I can't help but wonder if it is intended to persuade or dissuade!?)

      I hadn't run across either this term or the strategy before. Curious what the circumstance(s) / games which offer a "competitive" advantage to intentionally restricting their players' competitive abilities?

      ... ktb

    • Tolimar
      Tolimar commented
      Editing a comment
      Back in the early days of EverQuest, the term twinking was used when someone created a new character and then rapidly leveled them up by equipping them with gear immensely more powerful than they could normally obtain. Then this new “twink” would blaze through the newbie zones, racking up huge numbers of kills ang gaining experience rapidly, while the real newbies would be struggling to kill the lowest level skeletons with a wooden club, or if they were amazingly lucky, a rusty scimitar. The “cheat” that made this work was the way someone could twink that new character, working around the restrictions that were in place early in the game. The restriction at the time was that there was no way that multiple characters from the same account could, in any way, communicate or interact with each other. Only one character from an account could be online at any time. There was no shared inventory, no shared gold between characters. A shared bank was added much later in the game. So, how do you get items between two isolated characters on the same account? Eventually, the ability to trade items between characters from different accounts was introduced, and a burgeoning trading zone was established in the tunnel of East Commons. So one could log in with an item, give it to another character, log out and log back in with the character that was to receive the item, and obtain it from the character to which it was given. Many characters earned gold by offering trading services. Thievery was rampant, if you handed something to a character you did not know, they often simply ran off with what you trustingly gave them. You could report them to a Game Master, but I don’t know what the policy for such thievery was. It happened so often that GMs probably told those duped players “If you were stupid enough to give (insert name of any immensely powerful and/or exceedingly rare and valuable item) to a total stranger, then you deserve…etc. etc. etc.

      But even before trading was introduced, someone with the deviously clever and twisted mind necessary for such exploits figured out a way to game the game and twink a twink. This was not technically an exploit because it utilized a feature built into the game, a necessary feature for a skill available only to a specific class at the time. YOU COULD PICK THINGS UP OFF THE GROUND. Druids were able to Forage. Many quests for Druids involved foraging for rare and valuable items in far flung and dangerous zones. But, of course, like any skill, you had to achieve a high level of proficiency before you could actually find anything really useful. This meant many hours of foraging for mundane and common items, most of which were dropped right back on the ground. Now, items that required the skill to forage could only be found by Druids, they were invisible and unavailable to other classes. But the key to twinking was that any normal item dropped on the ground could be picked up by any other character that spotted it. Many times someone would drop something accidentally and it would be snatched up by another character before the character that dropped it could find it. So thievery or dropping and not being able to find a dropped item were problems that hindered twinking. There were literally hundreds of players online in a given zone and thousands of players online gamewide at any given time, so dropping an item was often the quickest way to lose it rather than transfer it to other characters. A crucial feature that made twinking possible was that dropped items did not disappear when the character that dropped them logged out. They would poof after a certain amount of time, but they remained in-game long enough for someone to drop an item, log out, log back in with the newbie they were twinking, who would then pick up the item. Rinse and repeat enough times or drop multiple items and you could quickly and fully equip your newbie twink. The key was to simply find an isolated spot in a zone, coordinate the positions of your characters in the zone, log in character A, drop item, log out, log in character B, pick up item. For a time, starting areas for newbies were populated by struggling newbies whose kills would be stolen by twinks, some with only a better weapon, others, the true twinks, with full sets of high level gear. Before shared inventory via the shared bank was introduced, characters from the same account had to use this drop and retrieve method to share items. Before bags that could hold multiple items were introduced, this meant dropping one or more items at the same time. Once bags that could hold multiple items were introduced, you could fill a bag and drop it in a secluded location for retrieval by another character. I used to zone into an area that had a boarding house that had several stories. These buildings were actual three dimensional structures with staircases you could climb, and long corridors with rooms you could enter. I used to transfer items between characters by going to the top floor to a room far in the back of a long corridor, drop a filled bag, and retrieve it. Very safe because player characters never used those rooms, they were just part of the vast areas of the game. Sorry for this overlong post, but those were the days…

    #3
    Years ago, ive done this a lot in world of warcraft, where you could stay at pvp brackets to have an advantage. It had brackets like 10-19 , 20-29 and so on, being the top level and wearing gear at that level gave a huge advantages, and thus easy farming of points.

    Honestly I don't think most games do this intentionally, but putting up thresholds can often lead to players finding advantages in them.
    Last edited by kysner; 05-16-2022, 06:27 PM.

    Comment


    • Teebs
      Teebs commented
      Editing a comment
      That is interesting that there was a precedent for this 'technique' and a mitigation which took place (from my quick perusal of the term as it applies to WoW).

      What seemed to take place here in Eternium world was that the splits were set which would have mitigated camping (as in - not being able to get both CT's AND remain in a sub-Master league) but were then adjusted to advantage "twinking" (I am more embarrassed to use this term than 'Toon!) by rewarding both CT's from an ANB and still remain in the sub-Master league.

      ... ktb

    #4
    If a player wants to permanently neuter their hero to gain more medals, then what does it matter?

    There are multiple discussions that in the greater scheme of things medals make little difference other than the march up to level 70. I want to say those top players have said that the medals make a difference of only two or three trials. Three players in the just-finished Silver #15 overall leaderboard Top 25 do not have any Medals of Glory equipped.

    So, a player wants to camp out in Veteran league for dozens of ANBs to pad their medal count and possibly earn some Medals of Glory? So what?

    That same player will have to limit their season and non-season play to less than TL 120.

    Will anyone that is really competitive really want to sandbag that much for long?

    There are reasons to camp out at TL 79 or TL 119. The only real downside is that players that do so steal a medal from a newer player that is earnestly doing their best to improve their game.

    The thing that I get the biggest kick out of? Being able to get a medal during Silver just because I completed TL 1! Talk about a low-pressure event!

    The situation will only get worse when they further dilute the player base when again splitting the leaderboards between keyboard/mouse and touchscreen players.

    The old thresholds of 60/80 greatly reduced the incentive to camp out in a lower league since you could not even get a single Celestial Transform which are game-changers and must-haves for players.

    Comment


    • Tin Man
      Tin Man commented
      Editing a comment
      My bad for relying on my memory for the original thresholds.

      Which class? Any class. The only class with more than 1 000 players participating in a Veteran or above league for the recent Bronze #15 was hunters in Veteran with 1 138. You have to try real hard to not get a medal during Bronzes nowadays. Veteran hunters did have to beat TL 15 in 3:21 or faster to get their medal. Contender hunters had to be TL 22 in 1:49 or faster while warriors only needed to beat TL 4 in 5:03.

    • bojck
      bojck commented
      Editing a comment
      totally agree, if anyone spends several seasons lurking in the lower leagues, they'll get bored beyond belief... Certainly wouldn't be motivated to climb to the top of Masters' league after that. With the current rules though it does make sense to wait out a few anbs before you move out of Veterans' - it takes time to get all the crafting recipes you need anyway, and to build up skills

    • Bali_Lenni
      Bali_Lenni commented
      Editing a comment
      ....Well it does not really matter......but....well even if they do not have that immense of an advantage value, at some stage they do have a very strong emotional/motivational value....
      I think there must be quite a few players who have been and are still working incredibly hard to get a hold of even one green medal, let alone a red one. So for those who started to play at "the wrong time" , it is just a twink disconcerning to have a considerable number of new players pop up with plenty of greens and reds obviously from lower leagues. Maybe not really unfair, but one does feel a bit left out in the cold, even if reasonnsays it should not matter.

      Personally , I think players should only keep the blue vit and armor medals once they move up to Master League. Let them do the same hard work, the older or presplit players had and still have to go through. It would give a slght feeling of justness, no matter how irrelevant medals are to ANB TLs.....

    #5
    I started a new account just to play at a more relaxing pace in Veteran's league for a while. It was never my intent to do this for medals, since I already have a ton of those in my main account at least to the point of diminishing returns. Having TL119 as an upper threshold makes for a very different, low stress style of play. For example, you do not need to craft a push set of gear or even play the current metas to reach TL119. You do not need to save gems to purchase a Legendary Crafters Crate or extra companions or to farm 2000+ CLs or even gold for that matter. You can even get to TL119 by just playing with dropped gear or using the e-box gear. If I decide to play competitive as a change of pace, I still have my main account. The return on investment for increasing CLs through ANBs is too low to make that much of an incentive any more, and I already have more CTs that I could ever use just taking up inventory space. Until they come up with a major balancing upgrade, a new hero class, or new gear sets, I can just continue to run the same old hero for the season awards in my main account without losing much ground. Going all in for one more CT'ed level 77 piece of gear might boost my maximum up by one trial, woohoo!

    I am not sure how long I will last in the lower league since I may be too competitive at heart. However, I imagine that a player who is willing to experiment with the different classes and gear sets could last for a long time, at least until something better comes along...

    Comment


    • Teebs
      Teebs commented
      Editing a comment
      "To be clear" ... I DON NOT begrudge anyone from doing this. I certainly don't have the interest and 'fortitude' to start from scratch.

      It was more a question of "unintended consequences".


      ... ktb

    • Ozymandius
      Ozymandius commented
      Editing a comment
      Teebs I have to agree that the split leaderboards do have consequences that were unintended. I think if there were clearer guidelines about the consequences of pushing past the milestones for the next level that many new players would wait longer to take advantage of the lower level competition. I am a firm believer that medals are mostly just for show, but there is a clear advantage of spending the time at lower level competition to learn the ropes. I have seen too many posts both here and on Discord from players who progressed too quickly, then felt stuck in a competitive league for which they were ill prepared.

      My main point was that there were other advantages to playing in lower leagues other that just medals. I switched back to Master's league for the current event to collect the season awards on my main account, so my experiment on Veteran's league is on a temporary hold.

    #6
    Yeah, I was going to stick in veteran league for one round of ANBs just for fun. Then the levels changed. Now I'm here until I get better. Haven't managed to reach 110 yet, lol.

    Comment


      #7
      You can’t even get medal of glory in contenders league with TL120.

      Comment


      • Tin Man
        Tin Man commented
        Editing a comment
        You most definitely can. You could get a Medal of Glory for as low as TL 84 in the just-finished Gold #15.

      #8
      Maybe you can get one, I forgot. I lost my main account, so I’m replaying. I got a first place in contender league with TL 137. I got a dropped bracer with 192 cleave, though I still can’t craft bom.

      Comment

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