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Mage question on power of Sigularity

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  • #16
    Potato..as King of Mage (no 1 in Mage Leader board) .would your majesty be so kind as to show us juniors your "Hero attributes"...thank you

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tim Moon View Post
      ... I’m at trial level 99 and playing on mobile device ... so I shouldn’t expect to go much higher...
      I beat 109 on mobile a long time ago and then started pushing higher on PC. I'd like to think my strategy & skills have improved since then and could go higher.

      But, high end trials on mobile can be maddening due to the smaller screen and clunkier controls.
      VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381
      ~ Gethi, mage, TL109 mobile & TL121 PC
      ~ Kisheli, XP mage, TL112

      ~ ANB-beta, TL100 (#1); ANB1, TL116 (top 10); ANB2, TL110 (top 10);
      ANB3, TL112 (top 10)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Oldmobilenewbie View Post
        ... AL gives an alacrity boost that carries over to AB for a few seconds and a gives a cool down reduction as well...
        Just FYI, that isn't stated quite right.

        Alacrity has a certain % chance to be triggered, which correlates to Ability Rate but gets more or less maxed at 30% at AR=1500. Triggered by what, is the key question.

        We believe it is triggered by "attacks" such that Haste/AS is important. But what counts as an attack? Every "bolt" from Arcane Bolts? Every "jump" that Arc Lightning makes to the next monster? The answer seems to be no to the former and yes to the latter. Thus, AL procs Alacrity more than AB. Or so we believe. However, there's no "duration" to AL (nor any attack) and Alacrity. Each trigger is a one time occurrence.

        ​​​​​​In the meantime, Arc Lightning buffs attack speed and also buffs damage taken by enemies. You can read the description. One stacks 10 times and the other 5 times. It's late and I'm tired and I can't remember which is which. Nhat proved which was which with testing. This was all pre-version 1.3 !! Anyways, those buffs have (had?) a duration of 5 seconds. So if you alternate AL with AB at least every 5 seconds, the stack refreshes for another 5 seconds. If you let it expire you have to rebuild the stack with 5 to 10 attacks.

        There's other posts where we tried to analyze and test all this in great detail.
        VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381
        ~ Gethi, mage, TL109 mobile & TL121 PC
        ~ Kisheli, XP mage, TL112

        ~ ANB-beta, TL100 (#1); ANB1, TL116 (top 10); ANB2, TL110 (top 10);
        ANB3, TL112 (top 10)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Coda View Post
          We believe it is triggered by "attacks" such that Haste/AS is important. But what counts as an attack? Every "bolt" from Arcane Bolts? Every "jump" that Arc Lightning makes to the next monster? The answer seems to be no to the former and yes to the latter. Thus, AL procs Alacrity more than AB. Or so we believe. However, there's no "duration" to AL (nor any attack) and Alacrity. Each trigger is a one time occurrence.
          I have to disagree here.

          You can easily see that when AL crits, it is all the jumps (and main one..) or none of the jumps. Why would each jump trigger alacrity? If it bounces 20 times, that is 20 possible triggers (30% chance- 6 triggers, est. 6 sec cooldown in 1 hit, 6.5 hits/sec... just isn't possible). If by "each trigger is a one time occurrence" you mean that only 1 alacrity can proc per 1 arc lightning cast, then same thing as above-- 6.5 hits/sec you would expect the arc lightning to jump for 5 of these, and onto 20+ mobs (easily more than this) which means 5 hits/ sec and alacrity cooling down spells by 5 seconds. (this is all before the 50% attack speed boost too).

          I agree with AB not triggering for each bolt though. Also each hit is one cast and each cast contains 6 (or whatever the number is) bolts. 1 attack, 6 projectiles. You can see this by getting low AS and shooting Arcane bolts and moving directly afterwards and the rest of the 6 bolts will fire while you have already moved away.
          ANB #1- Mage Rank 17..... T107 in 9:47
          ANB #2- Mage Rank 1....... T116 in 9:54

          Live LB- Mage Rank 1........ T122 in 9:05.
          Live LB- XP Mage Rank 31. T112 in 7:55/ T100 in 3:25.

          Click here to see my gameplay videos.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by TheExorcist View Post
            Potato..as King of Mage (no 1 in Mage Leader board) .would your majesty be so kind as to show us juniors your "Hero attributes"...thank you
            Nothing really to it. 6.75 (maybe 6.7?) AS, 45%/ 45.5% CR, 1281% or something CD. 1500 AR. Rest is just power. AR doesnt really matter.
            ANB #1- Mage Rank 17..... T107 in 9:47
            ANB #2- Mage Rank 1....... T116 in 9:54

            Live LB- Mage Rank 1........ T122 in 9:05.
            Live LB- XP Mage Rank 31. T112 in 7:55/ T100 in 3:25.

            Click here to see my gameplay videos.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Purple Potato View Post
              Something that I still suck at as evident by my singularity numbers compared to RoA as you mentioned.
              Well, since you were both fighting the same peak trial, and you "cracked it" thru Carpe's Focused Fire Technique (yeah let's give cool names to stuff), I shouldn't think your potential suboptimality in RoA's Traveling Singularity Technique made that much of a difference.

              Granted, you also had what, +100 CL over him?

              (I am treating you two as possessing similar skill, which is meant as praise to both and disrespect to neither)

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              • #22
                Purple Potato many players believe that AL triggers "stuff" faster or more frequently than AB. Immolate, Alacrity, etc. This does seem to be shown in testing, prior to v1.3. There has been a good debate as to if it really does, and why.

                One fact: it hits faster as there is no projectile speed. AB projectiles are kinda slow.

                Another fact: monsters cannot stand in front and block AL. You can target something within the mob and hit it.

                AL does not jump 20 times because the probability decreases with each jump (85% each). And Alacrity has only a 30% chance. Thus IF each jump has a chance to trigger it:

                First enemy: 1.0 * 0.3
                Second : 0.85 * 0.3
                #3 : 0.85^2 * 0.3
                #4 : 0.85^3 * 0.3
                etc.
                And for the probability if any two of these happening at the same time, you multiply those two probabilities together.

                We don't know for sure and that's why I wrote a lot if "we believe" statements. If AL really does cause more frequents procs then why? It's a question that maybe only Devs can answer. Or maybe Nhat the master tester.

                There are 2 older threads with a lot of good debate on this. Sorry I don't remember if you were on the forum back then, so they might be old news to you.


                https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/th...s-it-triggered

                https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/th...g-and-alacrity

                The main point I was trying to make is that AL does not somehow buff Alacrity which then transfers to AB. The AL buffs that do stack and (used to) transfer are in the description of AL:

                Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_20181011-085442_Eternium.jpg Views:	1 Size:	108.9 KB ID:	115717
                Last edited by Coda; 10-11-2018, 01:10 PM.
                VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381
                ~ Gethi, mage, TL109 mobile & TL121 PC
                ~ Kisheli, XP mage, TL112

                ~ ANB-beta, TL100 (#1); ANB1, TL116 (top 10); ANB2, TL110 (top 10);
                ANB3, TL112 (top 10)

                Comment


                • #23
                  It is fairly "known" lore that each AL jump has a chance to proc Immolate. That is partly how Led managed insane godlike DPS in his older videos (when AL could arc beyond the screen limits and Immolate proc stacked indefinitely). If he was only proc'ing once per cast (at 30% chance isn't it?) he wouldn't quite manage the jaw-dropping exponential buildup that I witnessed (and I would be very very glad for the opportunity to review and save that video...)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Coda View Post
                    [USER="85549"]
                    AL does not jump 20 times because the probability decreases with each jump (85% each). And Alacrity has only a 30% chance. Thus IF each jump has a chance to trigger it:
                    do you have proof that it is 85% chance for each jump? I strongly disagree that is it per jump. Reason: as i said earlier, the whole jump crits, or not at all. Play TBD and go past the first bridge and shoot the middle monster with arc lightning (elite, that slows you down). Every time it jumps, it jumps to all of them and kills them with the same single shot (when it jumps..). If you have a video proving otherwise (make sure that it clearly shows it and the mobs are not just out of range of the jump) then I would change my thinking but as of now, I am sticking with 1 cast of AL- 1 alacrity yes/no. (happens or doesn't) crit yes/no, jump yes/no (for the entire thing).

                    Maybe I am remembering wrong and am open to solid proof of examples of this not happening.
                    ANB #1- Mage Rank 17..... T107 in 9:47
                    ANB #2- Mage Rank 1....... T116 in 9:54

                    Live LB- Mage Rank 1........ T122 in 9:05.
                    Live LB- XP Mage Rank 31. T112 in 7:55/ T100 in 3:25.

                    Click here to see my gameplay videos.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Purple Potato View Post
                      do you have proof that it is 85% chance for each jump?
                      85% is written in the in-game description of the spell.
                      ?? That's my proof ??
                      VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381
                      ~ Gethi, mage, TL109 mobile & TL121 PC
                      ~ Kisheli, XP mage, TL112

                      ~ ANB-beta, TL100 (#1); ANB1, TL116 (top 10); ANB2, TL110 (top 10);
                      ANB3, TL112 (top 10)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Coda View Post
                        Or maybe Nhat the master tester.
                        Since I've been summoned (seriously though, please drop the "master"), I ran through a quick test...


                        Originally posted by Purple Potato View Post

                        do you have proof that it is 85% chance for each jump? I strongly disagree that is it per jump. Reason: as i said earlier, the whole jump crits, or not at all. Play TBD and go past the first bridge and shoot the middle monster with arc lightning (elite, that slows you down). Every time it jumps, it jumps to all of them and kills them with the same single shot (when it jumps..). If you have a video proving otherwise (make sure that it clearly shows it and the mobs are not just out of range of the jump) then I would change my thinking but as of now, I am sticking with 1 cast of AL- 1 alacrity yes/no. (happens or doesn't) crit yes/no, jump yes/no (for the entire thing).

                        Maybe I am remembering wrong and am open to solid proof of examples of this not happening.
                        Sorry, no videos but do have screenshots - fingers sore from doing repeated screenshots in order to "hopefully" get the ones I needed.


                        Training Ground tests to "prove" this, at least for Hometown beta v1.3.13 - usual setup, minimal stats, I did max out Critical Damage CP to make the different damage when crit more obvious, but left default Crit Chance. Took advantage of the re-enter Training Grounds via Town portal bug to get a lot of mobs (did it 2 times, ran out of room to "run-away"), then started striking away with Arc Lightning, results:

                        No jump, single target hit:
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2018-10-12-12-36-56.png Views:	1 Size:	267.7 KB ID:	115802

                        Big jump, almost whole group, definitely can see the decreasing damage - also note that only one of them crit.
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2018-10-12-12-36-52.png Views:	1 Size:	268.8 KB ID:	115803

                        Limited jump, only a few:
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2018-10-12-12-37-00.png Views:	1 Size:	267.6 KB ID:	115804Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2018-10-12-12-40-22.png Views:	1 Size:	269.0 KB ID:	115806

                        More "limited crits"
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot_2018-10-12-12-40-26.png Views:	1 Size:	269.2 KB ID:	115805


                        I have to agree with the "only 1 trigger of Alacrity per Arc Lightning" though - did not see drops of more than 2 seconds during my limited tests, and the arc was definitely hitting multiple targets... (At least, I do not have data to disprove this, only data backing it up...)



                        Originally posted by Coda View Post
                        85% is written in the in-game description of the spell.
                        ?? That's my proof ??
                        Unfortunately, based on the Attack Speed boost test with Arc Lightning itself, the descriptions can be wrong - in this case, it wasn't.

                        Edit: Actually, Arc Lightning's description "left things out", so not technically wrong. I think it was Rending Slash and Fleet Footed which falls into the "incorrect description" category...
                        Last edited by Nhat; 10-12-2018, 02:05 AM.
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