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  • High DPS mage build, some ideas?

    I know there is a guide out there but wanting to know if there are any new ideas or changes that should be made.

    3 quick questions first then the build:
    1) For me when I test it, power always adds the same amount of DPS. That makes no sense. I would like others with higher CL and higher CD to try it out. Just reset your CL points and add 500 power points, see how much it adds. Add 500 more, see what it adds, add 500 more and so on and so on. 500 power as in actual power not CL points. I always get the SAME amount of DPS added which is weird because you would be doing more CD so you would think it would go up the more you add.

    2) Is 6.67 APS still recommended? That is with your companions correct? Haste has a huge drop off which is why I am wondering here. Should one aim higher than 6.67 if they could and if so how much? Or are the points used better elsewhere?

    3)What is a good CR? I find this has a huge drop off too, so I usually get mine to 40% which is like 2000 CR I believe. I don't think the extra 500-600 points for 5% more CR is worth it over 500-600 to power where it could be added.

    For build aim is as of now:
    6.67 APS
    40% CR
    1500 AR
    Max CD%

    Gear would look like this(not exactly I would have to do the math to get the exact points):
    rings/necklace(give me the max, I am not sure what it is with pure CD%) - I would like 301 PWR, 121.x(what is max on pure CD?) and I would have to play with the math but then 24X CR(not sure what max is) and 191 AR(not sure what max is either) on rings and on necklace same thing but switch the AR and CR so AR is higher.

    Rest of the gear would be:
    PWR on all gear, enough points for AR/CR to get them to what I mentioned above, CD%, VIT & 1 item withLoH + 1 item faster movement speed.

    All gear socket with B Rubies

    CL points max all out obviously(get that nice 500 to CR here)

    Add enought points to Haste to make APS 6.67. which is funny because it can be at 6.66 and you add 2.5 1 at a time and it will turn to 6.67 so it is like you are spot on.

    Rest of the CL points into PWR.

    Abilities and passives are the usual.

    I am hoping that I get enough VIT on gear to keep me alive but if I need a little extra swap some B rubies out with B emeralds.

    Haven't messed with special enchantments so will try my best here:
    RotS on weapon, will leave off-hand open just incase they make it fair and either allow us all to add it or they need to repay Willy(and any other mages) with it and take it off.
    Rings - 100PWR. Don't see anything for necklace
    Chest - 400LoH
    Shoulderpads - 70% CD
    I only see "lesser" for gloves and all of those are useless for a Mage so will hold out to see what they come out with next.

    Any improvements or ideas or does this sound pretty squared away?

    Thank you,
    Andrew

  • #2
    AS depends on your playstyle. As a minimum, mages should have atleast 6AS even if you sacrifice other offensive stats (there are so many factors that needs AS and I am too lazy to list them all). I myself use 7.2AS to further exploit the rots procs and sometimes switch to 7 depending on my mood for the day

    ​​​​​​And to answer the CD question. Yes, cr is worth every % because crit affects even your skills. Do not skimp on cr and cd!

    There are no useless stats unless it is damage reflect or life regen. You will need every little stat you can get when you already maxed your build. Even dodge chance becomes viable when magic projectiles one hit you (armor only mitigates physical damage, i think).

    As for sockets, it really depends on what you need. People with PC or very nimble fingers + fast reflexes can sacrifice toughness for dps. But when every hit can kill you or you feel that it is easier to clear maps with tankiness, don't be afraid to socket vit or armor gems.

    Tldr; just do what you feel is better for your playstyle. Rule of thumb tho, ~7AS, every little cr helps, don't focus too much on dps, you can't deal damage if you're dead.

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    • #3
      In answer to your questions :

      1) Yes, 1 CL of power will always grant the same extra dps. You can change this a little by changing your AS, but for any given AS, each CL gives the same amount of power.

      2) I think with the game changes, 7.0 is a better end game target for AS. It gives more procs for RotS and immo, plus more recovery from loh which seems to be much more important now.

      3)CR does indeed have diminishing returns. My push mage is up to 45.6% CR now, after adding one of the enchantments. Is it worth it? I think so, especially at the high end of trial pushing. Getting those huge damage numbers from CD are a necessity.

      As for an optimal build, there are a lot of new ways to get there, especially with the enchantments. Check out wllly on the lb as well as nekromant. Different builds with slightly different emphasis on key attributes to suit their play styles.

      So in general, you're on the right track. Although I think you underestimate the importance of CR/CD and would recommend going for 45%CR. I allay think your AS target is probably low, but it may suit your playstyle better.

      Last thing I'll mention is there is are armor and dodge enchantments which are worth looking at. Dodge is interesting, since it gives a 4% chance for 0 damage. The armor boosts toughness and recovery. Either of these is worth trying out.
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      • #4
        Awesome. Yea you can get to 7APS pretty easily but diminishes quickly from there and even before hand. But why does PWR give the same damage is what I am confused about. When adding PWR you are increasing your base damage. Say you do max 25k base dmg and 1000% CD. Add PWR to do 30K base dmg, you are now doing 300k CD vs 250K CD. It should increase unless I am confused on how CD% works.
        1000 base damage 1000% CD = 10,000 CD
        10000 base damage 1000% CD = 100k CD
        25k base 1000% cd = 250K CD
        40k base 1000% CD = 400k CD

        You see what I mean? Every time you add power you increase both your base damage and your CD. So in theory your DPS should go up with PWR and not taper off or stay the same.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by andrewcb88 View Post
          Awesome. Yea you can get to 7APS pretty easily but diminishes quickly from there and even before hand. But why does PWR give the same damage is what I am confused about. When adding PWR you are increasing your base damage. Say you do max 25k base dmg and 1000% CD. Add PWR to do 30K base dmg, you are now doing 300k CD vs 250K CD. It should increase unless I am confused on how CD% works.
          1000 base damage 1000% CD = 10,000 CD
          10000 base damage 1000% CD = 100k CD
          25k base 1000% cd = 250K CD
          40k base 1000% CD = 400k CD

          You see what I mean? Every time you add power you increase both your base damage and your CD. So in theory your DPS should go up with PWR and not taper off or stay the same.
          CD triggers from CR % and the way you're calculating is with 100% CR so that's impossible...
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          • #6
            As your CL improves, Power and Haste stop being a must-have stat on your gear, as hitting stat targets on things you cannot control with CP, and stacking Vitality, become a priority. P and H become interchangeable. A "good" gear drop starts looking like:

            CD+CR plus:

            AR, V, LoH, MS, or H you already know you need to hit your goal AS.

            Intentionally putting P on your gear after the first 1000-1500 CLs is actually hurting your long-term potential for short-term gain, unless you have already hit your desired stat totals. On my toons, this typically means I have H or P on only 3-5 pieces total. Your use and stat goals may vary, but the combat ones you've presented are pretty accurate.

            ​​​​​
            Last edited by Trouble; 01-06-2019, 07:05 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by andrewcb88 View Post
              Awesome. Yea you can get to 7APS pretty easily but diminishes quickly from there and even before hand. But why does PWR give the same damage is what I am confused about. When adding PWR you are increasing your base damage. Say you do max 25k base dmg and 1000% CD. Add PWR to do 30K base dmg, you are now doing 300k CD vs 250K CD. It should increase unless I am confused on how CD% works.
              1000 base damage 1000% CD = 10,000 CD
              10000 base damage 1000% CD = 100k CD
              25k base 1000% cd = 250K CD
              40k base 1000% CD = 400k CD

              You see what I mean? Every time you add power you increase both your base damage and your CD. So in theory your DPS should go up with PWR and not taper off or stay the same.

              (Haven't we covered something similar to this already? https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...910#post116910)

              Power increases the base damage of your weapon, not the currently boosted damage, therefore the increase is constant. Hypothetically:
              • 100 Base Damage => 1000 CD damage
              • +10 Power => +5% of base => +5 => 105 damage => 1050 (+50, from initial)
              • +20 Power => +10% of base => +10 => 110 damage => 1100 (+100, from initial)
              • +40 Power => +20% of base => +20 => 120 damage => 1200 (+200 from initial)
              So, each +10 of power gives you +5 weapon damage (normal attacks) and +50 critical. Your DPS is going up in a constant rate - it's not tapering off nor staying the same.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Nhat View Post


                (Haven't we covered something similar to this already? https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...910#post116910)

                Power increases the base damage of your weapon, not the currently boosted damage, therefore the increase is constant. Hypothetically:
                • 100 Base Damage => 1000 CD damage
                • +10 Power => +5% of base => +5 => 105 damage => 1050 (+50, from initial)
                • +20 Power => +10% of base => +10 => 110 damage => 1100 (+100, from initial)
                • +40 Power => +20% of base => +20 => 120 damage => 1200 (+200 from initial)
                So, each +10 of power gives you +5 weapon damage (normal attacks) and +50 critical. Your DPS is going up in a constant rate - it's not tapering off nor staying the same.
                Yes, the increas to your base damage is consistant which means your are hitting higher CD. For example:
                I do 20k-27k >damage<(I consider this base damage). At 1000% CD that is 200k-270k.
                Add 1000 points into power = 30k-38k so I would be hitting 300k-380k
                And 1000 more into power = 38k-50k so I would be hitting 380k-500k

                When I add 1000 points into power, it adds 193k DPS
                When I add 1000 MORE points, it still adds only more 193k DPS and does not increase like it should.

                It is not going up at a constant rate but adding at the same rate.

                Also, I think we are talking about the same thing. Your DPS should increase more and more with the more power you have. So 100 power should add X amount of DPS and then when you add 100 more power it should increase MORE than the previous X amount of DPS. But that is not the results I am getting.
                Last edited by andrewcb88; 01-07-2019, 01:28 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by FendyBt2 View Post

                  CD triggers from CR % and the way you're calculating is with 100% CR so that's impossible...
                  No I am just calculating what dmg would be if you were to hit a crit. I didn't mean 100% CR.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by andrewcb88 View Post
                    Also, I think we are talking about the same thing. Your DPS should increase more and more with the more power you have. So 100 power should add X amount of DPS and then when you add 100 more power it should increase MORE than the previous X amount of DPS. But that is not the results I am getting.
                    Power adds damage from base values, not the current power number.. Increasing power by 1000 will always give the same damage number as the next 1000 power points as long as gear is the same.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by andrewcb88 View Post
                      ...
                      I do 20k-27k >damage<(I consider this base damage). ....
                      There's your problem; that's not your base damage. That's the already modified damage.

                      Assuming you're not changing anything other than power, your base damage will always be the same.

                      So say your base is 2000. CD 1000% = 20000.
                      Add 1000 power = 500% base = 10000, base 2k + bonus 10k = total 12000, CD 120000 - increase of 10k/100k.

                      Then since your base is still the same, adding another 1000 power is no different. Still the same increase of 10k/100k.

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                      • #12
                        I noticed something today while playing around with some different haste values, and testing in training grounds. Arcane bolts doesn't work right at higher attack speeds. I know there's some bug with AL haste boost and AB, but it seems there's more to it.

                        I ran a 10 minute test using just AB with an AS of 7.0, single target. What I got was 3050 casts...just over 5/sec.

                        Ran another 10 minutes at 5.96 AS. 3254 casts, or about 5.4.

                        I then ran a few 3 minute tests at different levels:
                        5.01 = 4.99 actual
                        6.01 = 5.71 actual
                        7.01 = 5.12 actual

                        Did a few more 30 second runs at smaller intervals, didn't note them exactly but it seemed there was no difference for anything in the range of 5-5.4-ish, then a boost when I went over 5.5, then nothing again until I went over 6. Then I got tired of testing before I pinpointed the AS where it starts to drop.

                        So is the AL bug really just a bug with AB and AS, or does the AL bug persist even after you exit a map?

                        I also noticed that when using AL, proc and spell damage was considerably higher. Around 20-25% or so. I assume that 5% AL bonus must stack?

                        All in all, at the moment it looks like AL is surpassing AB.

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                        • #13
                          Interesting, so it's more a case of AB itself failing at high AS, rather than the AL/AB combination failing - thanks for the data.

                          Based on previous tests, yes AL damage debuff stacks 5 times, giving you +25% damage to the effected targets: https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...ppose-to-stack
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                          • #14
                            Nice find Buppy .

                            The devs have supposedly had a hard time figuring the bug out. Perhaps because they were looking in the wrong place based on our feedback. Hopefully this helps them.

                            It does help explain why it only seemed to be AB having trouble as well, if it is in fact a general AB bug.
                            CL 2K+
                            Mage- Ladim(#9 Live LB), Proxima(XP)
                            TL119 in 9:14 on mobile (iphone8)

                            Mage Guide

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                            • #15
                              Further info after additional testing:
                              6 AS seems to be the peak. In several 1 minute tests I was getting ~345 attacks very consistently at any AS from 6 to 6.72 (note that is only ~5.75/sec). At both 5.56 and 5.96 I was getting 330, then 330 again at 6.82. 308 at both 7.01 and 7.62.

                              Also noticed that AL by itself isn't hitting the expected rates either. I was under the assumption that the haste can stack up to 10 times, for 50% bonus. So at 6 AS I should get around 9 actual, but tested only around 7.5. At 7.01 AS I measured 8.5. 7.62 measured 9.97. 25% seems more accurate.

                              And finally, I did some tests switching between AL and AB, and AB is still slowed even at 6 AS. I can only be so precise on the timing, but trying to switch at 2sec AL/3 sec AB, was giving me usually in the range of 190 attacks which would be around 5.25-5.3 / sec (probably in truth ~5.13, and my timing just sucks).

                              On the bright side, it doesn't seem to slow down any further after 7 AS, even using AL. I haven't done any math, but it seems switching between AL and AB would still be optimal DPS. Worst case it's only about a 10% hit to peak AB attack rate, and the additional damage, procs, and utility casts from AL should more than make up for that.

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