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  • BH Datamining.

    Common Factors: Bounty Hunter, ~720k Damage. 7 AS, 40% CR, 15300-15307 Damage per Hit, Hailstorms (RotS set: 1540/1545 Max Dmg, Bombardment set: 1527/1550 Max Dmg.) Piercing Ammo, Power Infusion.

    Note: The data would be more accurate without Hailstorm and Power Infusion procs. I decided I wanted to see real-world interactions, and kept them on. Keep in mind in the most extreme case, very low or very high uptime for procs, combined with inconsistent positioning, made a difference of up to 10m DPS with the same gear and skills during the Multi test. Most of the data involved running duplicate runs and keeping the most representative result for comparison. I tried to remove as many variables as possible, and use what I consider "accepted" baseline stat targets, and making sure positioning was consistent for Multi tests. No active skills have been used; this is purely auto-attack and procs. Stalker has the biggest ambient DPS advantage in this test, due to the Sniper Shot procs, and because there are only 6 NPCs, which circle you. Assault will see a massive boost once active skill use and larger groups become involved. My Havoc and Adventurer suits are a small stack of Mark of Titans right now, so there is no data for these sets. Bombardment and Explosive shot get to see a best-case scenario for AoE, as at point blank range, you are consistently hitting 3-4 mobs. RotS will absolutely perform better in real, common AoE situations with more mobs involved. Your results may vary.

    Columns: {Assault or Stalker) / (Storm or Bombardment) / (Explosive, Lethal, or Scatter) / (Charged or Poison)

    Each entry shows number of attacks + average damage + percent of total damage.
    Single Target A/S/S/C A/B/S/C S/S/L/P S/B/L/P A/B/E/C
    Average DPS 10.7m 10.9m 18.2m 18.5m 6.1m
    Peak DPS: 11.7m 11.9m 20.9m 21.2m 7.4m
    Scatter 2164/991,813/65% 2182/1002945/64%
    Lethal 2361/957665/39% 2384/931044/38%
    Explosive 2213/664537/77%
    Charged 6202/117,704/22% 6320/117095/22% 559/118437/3%
    Poison 624/227198/2% 627/221535/2%
    RotS 473/870669/12% 474/975668/8%
    Bombardment 289/1558145/13% 303/1429593/7% 242/1465054/19%
    Snipe 60/13540665/14% 59/13733519/14%
    Snipe (DOT) 616/3298944/35% 611/3534380/37%
    Single Target S/S/L/C S/B/L/C A/B/L/C A/B/L/P S/B/E/P S/B/E/C
    Average DPS 18.0m 18.4m 7.9m 8.0m 16.3m 15.6m
    Peak DPS: 20.5m 20.8m 9.2m 9.4m 18.2m 18.7m
    Scatter
    Lethal 2380/950187/40% 2374/947169/39% 2198/933903/83% 2209/914186/80%
    Explosive 2354/657079/30% 2388/642351/32%
    Charged 602/124617/1% 570/120446/1% 508/110788/2% 576/120295/1%
    Poison 625/216779/5% 624/69754/1%
    RotS 480/976252/8%
    Bombardment 301/1580773/8% 247/1411302/14% 260/1286962/13% 281/1652747/9% 270/1444698/8%
    Snipe 59/13601017/14% 60/13457147/14% 60/13584627/16% 58/13495834/16%
    Snipe (DOT) 607/3347037/36% 610/3484774/37% 622/3566213/43% 606/3438904/43%
    Multi Target A/S/S/C A/B/S/C S/S/L/P S/B/L/P S/S/S/P
    Average DPS 24.5m 25.2m 29.2m 25.1m 20.2m
    Peak DPS: 26.4m 30.0m 34.1m 28.8m 26.4m
    Scatter 2203/997624/29% 2214/990136/28% 2339/933568/24% 2333/585004/22%
    Lethal 2371/955209/29%
    Explosive
    Charged 9094/381965/46% 9089/399849/46%
    Poison 2424/605034/16% 2464/270343/9% 3584/22061/1%
    RotS 418/2315876/13% 497/2316907/13% 467/2296124/17%
    Bombardment 239/4354538/13% 280/4053404/15%
    Piercing 11169/84123/12% 11558/82080/12% 1044/988740/11% 1030/949136/13% 7089/83864/9%
    Snipe 58/16966092/11% 60/13534383/10% 58/16097792/15%
    Snipe (DOT) 619/3619199/25% 610/3162004/25% 606/3730666/36%
    Multi Target S/S/S/C S/B/S/C A/B/L/P A/B/S/P S/B/E/P S/B/E/C
    Average DPS 26.0m 26.5m 15.3m 13.9m 28.9m 26.4m
    Peak DPS: 32.1m 34.2m 17.8m 16.1m 32.9m 29.2m
    Scatter 2377/582833/17% 2358/577686/16% 2175/1005798/50%
    Lethal 2181/928863/43%
    Explosive 2361/1494068/39% 2375/1425929/41%
    Charged 5671/392380/27% 5787/393632/27% 826/381173/4%
    Poison 2403/248198/13% 3731/23438/2% 2530/459973/13%
    RotS 459/2270019/13%
    Bombardment 279/4540479/15% 256/4908455/26% 243/4608498/26% 248/4615766/13% 284/4518445/16%
    Piercing 7202/83516/7% 7092/84534/7% 941/911411/18% 11204/82642/21% 1082/364917/4% 1049/342343/4%
    Snipe 59/15375066/11% 59/15882517/11% 59/14138611/9% 60/13679042/10%
    Snipe (DOT) 609/3206407/24% 610/3088810/23% 600/3274909/22% 606/3393552/25%
    Last edited by Trouble; 01-08-2019, 07:19 PM.

  • #2
    If you are doing difficult content, and mowing down single groups in rapid succession, Bombardment performs a little better, as expected.

    If you are speed clearing trash, RotS is simply awesome. Against small groups and single targets, it is still really good.

    ​​​​​​None of this should be any surprise.

    Third row down , check out S/S/L/P, and compare the poison damage to S/S/S/P (605,034 vs 22,061) The shot damage is interacting with poison and RotS with some setups. We see it again with S/B/E/P (Single 69,754, Multi 459,973), where Explosive Shot sees great returns from having multiple mobs grouped together within the blast radius. The proc is carrying amped up, or better spreading poison, as most of the other examples had 210-250k.
    Last edited by Trouble; 01-08-2019, 09:04 AM.

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    • #3
      So I took a long look at these numbers:

      Snipe procs had to be removed, at which point I started looking at a way to determine a baseline number to gauge effectiveness off of. The first thing I notice is that Assault 6 makes Scatter Shot, at point-blank range, the same damage as Lethal Shot. This makes life much easier. Now we can see what is more effective purely based on changes to the total damage percent of the shot being used in single target tests.

      Multi target tests have already shown Scatter+Charged Ammo scales the best, and best of all with Assault. For players using Stalker, you are probably better off taking Charged Ammo, and using Scatter Shot against any groups, saving Lethal Shot for tougher single targets and bosses. Poisoned Ammo is best used in the toughest, smallest fights, and ONLY with Lethal Shot.

      So I made sure both Stalker and Assault sets had 1500 AR+Integralas, and ran more single-target tests, now using Rapid Fire and Snipe on cooldown. Duration of testing no longer matters, as we are just looking at the total % of Scatter (Assault) and Lethal (Stalker) damage, with the lowest score being better.

      Assault: 14%
      Stalker: 22%

      TL;DR:

      Assault is just plain better, even in a single target fight.

      Stalker has range, and is affected less by active skill use/player ability.

      Bombardment may get you a touch more DPS in small-scale fights against bunched up mobs.

      You are probably better off with Charged Ammo and RotS most of the time, regardless of the set you're using.
      Last edited by Trouble; 01-14-2019, 02:23 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Trouble View Post
        So I took a long look at these numbers:

        Snipe procs had to be removed, at which point I started looking at a way to determine a baseline number to gauge effectiveness off of. The first thing I notice is that Assault 6 makes Scatter Shot, at point-blank range, the same damage as Lethal Shot. This makes life much easier. Now we can see what is more effective purely based on changes to the total damage percent of the shot being used in single target tests.

        Multi target tests have already shown Scatter+Charged Ammo scales the best, and best of all with Assault. For players using Stalker, you are probably better off taking Charged Ammo, and using Scatter Shot against any groups, saving Lethal Shot for tougher single targets and bosses. Poisoned Ammo is best used in the toughest, smallest fights, and ONLY with Lethal Shot.

        So I made sure both Stalker and Assault sets had 1500 AR+Integralas, and ran more single-target tests, now using Rapid Fire and Snipe on cooldown. Duration of testing no longer matters, as we are just looking at the total % of Scatter (Assault) and Lethal (Stalker) damage, with the lowest score being better.

        Assault: 14%
        Stalker: 22%

        TL;DR:

        Assault is just plain better, even in a single target fight.

        Stalker has range, and is affected less by active skill use/player ability.

        Bombardment may get you a touch more DPS in small-scale fights against bunched up mobs.

        You are probably better off with Charged Ammo and RotS most of the time, regardless of the set you're using.
        You don't take a couple of things into consideration here: TG is almost perfect for the Assault playstyle and pretty bad for Stalker.
        This is especially obvious, if you compare the single and multi-target Snipe damage, which tends to only hit one target as TG mobs usually surround you, while Assault gets a crazy amount of pierces. In a trial situation Stalker would generate way higher damage with Snipe than in TG simply by repositioning to line up targets. Furthermore there's the stat difference caused by the playstyle. Stalker can just invest more into damage stats than close-range Assault. It doesn't need as much Vit and LoH as it is generally keeping a distance and gets stuns and knockbacks a bit more consistently.
        As for single target damage Poison suits Stalker better: It scales with projectile damage and in that regard Snipe and Lethal Shot are undeniably the strongest in their respective categories. Charged on the other hand scales with weapon damage and therefore syncs better with Scatter and RF(many weak projectiles).

        Overall Assault is still stronger than Stalker, but in the context of TG Stalker gets weaker, while Assault gets stronger(no incoming damage, no problems with mob positioning).
        MULU FIGU DUFE 7374

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        • #5
          Besides not bothering to list them, what makes you think I don't consider these things?

          The multi-target test was definitely more in favor of Stalker, Explosive Shot, and Bombardment. It also robbed Assault of the 7+ bunched up mobs you'll often be fighting, and over-emphasized the role of Poisoned Ammo. We already know Assault/Scatter/RotS/Charged wins the BH AoE DPS crown in bigger pulls, so the multi-tests were less useful.

          Killing the boss as fast as possible should, IMO, be the goal. As was said previously, possibly by me:

          Build your toon to kill the mobs, and you may struggle with the boss. Build your toon to kill the boss, and mobs will be no problem.

          Stalker isn't terrible, but it is currently #2. I prefer Stalker on mobile because it is much more convenient (less gestures than Assault+RF spam requires), and the added range makes targeting and avoidance easier. On PC, these things matter much less. Assault simply has a higher skill cap.

          If Stalker's Snipe proc had never been nerfed, and was still matching the player's skill level, I suspect things would be much more even. If Lethal Shot still had a brief stun/daze effect, this would similarly even things out, although I suspect it would over-emphasize Stalker on mobile even more.

          ​​​​​​On the subject of stacking defensive stats, I once again defer to boss fights; I contend both need Vit, and possibly armor at a certain point. Nothing cripples your DPS as much as having to run. For the 91/101 trials I am XP farming, I need to be able to facetank un-enraged Magroth, and maximize Power Infusion and Hailstorm uptime, so the active skills and procs which do 86-78% of my damage are being used on cooldown, and are consistently buffed. Kiting destroys your time to kill, and ensures it could take 1-2 seconds to reactivate your buffs. The same can be said about mob pulls. Doing 1/4 map pulls and being able to just stop and unload, vs frequent repositioning and corner/chokepoint use, makes up for a great deal of power over time.
          Last edited by Trouble; 01-14-2019, 07:46 PM.

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          • #6
            Wat is TG?
            warrior - DW Trial 109 -Matrempit -in O Dear..9:10- "Tough as Nail" work wonders - (PC only)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TheExorcist View Post
              Wat is TG?
              Training Grounds in Act 1 (the area with the big gold star on the left side).

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              • #8
                Interesting

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by narf View Post

                  You don't take a couple of things into consideration here: TG is almost perfect for the Assault playstyle and pretty bad for Stalker.
                  This is especially obvious, if you compare the single and multi-target Snipe damage, which tends to only hit one target as TG mobs usually surround you, while Assault gets a crazy amount of pierces. In a trial situation Stalker would generate way higher damage with Snipe than in TG simply by repositioning to line up targets. Furthermore there's the stat difference caused by the playstyle. Stalker can just invest more into damage stats than close-range Assault. It doesn't need as much Vit and LoH as it is generally keeping a distance and gets stuns and knockbacks a bit more consistently.
                  As for single target damage Poison suits Stalker better: It scales with projectile damage and in that regard Snipe and Lethal Shot are undeniably the strongest in their respective categories. Charged on the other hand scales with weapon damage and therefore syncs better with Scatter and RF(many weak projectiles).

                  Overall Assault is still stronger than Stalker, but in the context of TG Stalker gets weaker, while Assault gets stronger(no incoming damage, no problems with mob positioning).
                  I ran the test in the training grounds once before
                  Useuse the minions combined with movement to stack them up in a nice little area for the snipe proc

                  Still averaged about 3x the damage output.

                  Being said there has been theory crafting of what happens if you abandon CR totally favor haste and CD
                  So that the proc fires more often.
                  Lord Emperor of Bridge Navigational Systems Engineer for:
                  Eternium 2: Rise of the bounty Hunters
                  see post:https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...pply-for-a-job
                  and https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...414-eternium-2

                  Do NOT hire Xagan! He works for the enemy!!!

                  Friend code: GEBA WABE WADI 4184

                  If it's spelled bad. Horrible Grammar. Random words. No photo I was talking about. Or cut off mid sentence...
                  It's my tablet, I'm sorry

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                  • #10
                    Don't forget that assault is almost a non-option for mobile when compared to stalker or PC.
                    Dyoma Crown
                    Dyoma Crown Total: 346

                    Mage: 118
                    Warrior (DW): 115
                    BH: 113

                    Warrior (SW): 112

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