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  • #31
    Originally posted by MarkHark View Post
    Here's my friend ID, Tin Man! Take a look at my roster!
    KECA FIJO RAHA 5941

    Also, is there a way to undelete one's posts? I'm sad to see your contributions to this thread washing away, feels like a waste of good and hard work. Please be aware that your efforts are greatly appreciated!
    Not that I am aware of. Was just easier than continuing to edit all the posts to correct for my errors.

    I am aware that many found the intent behind to posts to be interesting and scratched that curiosity itch. I never meant to be involved in a serious conversation that would turn into cannon for the game. I rarely post about play style or tactics. Most of my posts are for humor, offer a helping hand or scratch that curiosity itch. My depth as a player does not qualify me to address play style and tactics.

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    • #32
      Following up on my previous post. As in the previous one, feel free to post your opinions.

      CONTINUING INTERLUDE:

      - it seems I already have the perfect pants for the experiment:
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      No suitable Assault boots so far, however I do have a couple usable Stalker ones and this nice generic piece:

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      I'm comitted to the Assault choice, though, so it's either crafting or trying to reforge this one for Movespeed:

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      I do have several suitable IMs, including this one which is not useful for much else due to low AR proc

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      and this much better one, of which I do, in fact, own two exact copies:

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      • #33
        (I'll decide upon the exact jewelry stats and look for the guns at a later time, but for the sake of completing the thought process let's pretend everything is already done)

        END OF INTERLUDE


        Having decided on the final build, created the appropriate jewelry and chosen the gear to be unlocked, let's proceed with the final steps, shall we?

        4- Create first char - Allocate all champion points from the start. At this point it should make quite a difference, especially the MS and Haste. Char will be equipped with Stormgun and Ironbound upon arriving at hometown. Got me a handful +50% XP boosters from season rewards that have no real use in normal gameplay, might as well spend some of those to speed up the process.
        Save any good XP/MS items on the way up to level 59, especially if I get any Assault drops midway. Misty Island might be a prospective source. Green XP jewelry only at this time. No ability or inventory unlocks, let's save our gems here. Gold is plenty, so upgrade hero skills ad libitum. With CPs help, going for trials ASAP might speed up the leveling considerably.

        5- According to LodWig (see quote below), at this point I should be able to unlock my Jewelry for 9 levels (saving 19 gems from the 10th one). Equip unlocked jewelry, play to Level 60 and fully unlock the boots, pants, guns and cape. Estimated cost so far = 775 gems.

        Originally posted by LodWig View Post
        Remember, initial required level of level 70 legendary jewellery is only 68.
        6- Stash all items, delete hero, create new hero, repeat to level 50, unlock everything, rinse and repeat. Cost so far is 1550 from unlocking + 100 gems for deleting both characters = 1650 gems.

        7- For the next 4 heroes, all unlocking shall be done in 10-level steps, netting 882 gems cost for each one, or 3528 gems.

        8- Last hero will do the full unlock upon arriving at home town, which will be either 8 or 9 levels at a cost of, respectively 544 or 680 gems. Assuming the latter, final cost is 5,858 gems.
        Last edited by MarkHark; 09-04-2019, 11:38 PM.

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        • #34
          The gear I'll be unlocking during my speed runs is currently equipped on my Keavenly BH if you want to check it out MarkHark (unless I craft some better items before I'm ready to start my next speed runner). The gear also has full (synergised) enchantments. My FC is: VIQA TESO VUBA 6781

          During my speed runs I'll be dropping jewelry and capes by 10 levels and set items by 4 per run, so it will take a long time to get them to level 2.

          I'd definitely go CC over IM if you ever do speed runs you don't need the ability boost.

          I was considering doing quicker speed runs by not doing legendary stages to level drop faster, but decided against it because I'd be basically earning enough to only cover the costs during each run, although quests and ad boxes would be a surplus.

          I imagine as I stockpile gems I'll start to speed up the level dropping though, still have a few to spend first on my main characters, stash, and ANB reserve though.

          I may be in a good place to do a decent run on the next ANB event as I'm earning very decent gems already.

          I'm enjoying the strategy I'm using and taking longer each run by doing legendary stages means my reserve BH has more real time to upgrade abilities at the same time.
          Last edited by Keaven; 09-06-2019, 08:50 AM.
          VIQA TESO VUBA 6781
          Eternium Walkthrough

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          • #35
            MarkHark

            Keep in mind that the attribute balance below level 70 is very different than the attribute balance once you hit champion levels even when you have champion points available for a level 1 character. Power carries substantially more weight at level 1 than it does at level 70.

            I level 4 character with no gear and no champion points get +15.0% damage from +5 power; +6.4% damage from +5 critical rating; and +25.0% damage from +5 haste. Note that there is no recovery boost from the haste as a level 4 character with no gear nor champion points nor medals even has no life on hit value.

            The same values for a similarly equipped level 21 character? There is a +3.0% damage from +5 power; 1.3% damage from +5 critical rating; and +8.6% damage from +5 haste with the same no recovery boost for the same reason.

            This is the reason why people notice that there Damage per Second goes down when they level up if they don't upgrade gear.

            Due to my track record so far this week I just double checked these values with an actual character.

            When I am pushing a new character for ANB I load up on haste and power for the push to level 70 and ignore critical rating and critical damage.

            I still think you should focus on overwhelming loading damage onto your gear after you max out movement speed and only have exp on a single piece of jewelry at best. Personally I would not even bother with experience at all. Pushing trials above your weight has a massive experience boost all its own.

            The biggest week spot for a level 1 character in level 70 equipment is lack of vitality, regeneration and life on hit in order to be able to survive being hit. A level 1 character will get lots of armor from the gear itself so that makes up for the lack of armor from level. Lack of vitality will be a big issue which will have to be made up by the gear. You will actually punch stronger at level 1 than at level 70 will the same gear. You will not be able to survive as much though.

            Alright everybody! Here we go! Start the corrections!

            Gotta have a sense of humor about it all.

            EDIT: Don't bother with the Stormgun. Go with a full Tesla Set if you want to walk through the levels. Stormgun will only match the characters level. A full Tesla Set will be level 70 the entire way and also be legendary and you may choose the attributes.
            Last edited by Tin Man; 09-05-2019, 03:18 AM.

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            • #36
              Vitality and lifesteal can be boosted with gemstones and enchantments as needed too.
              Originally posted by Tin Man View Post
              ...Keep in mind that the attribute balance below level 70 is very different than the attribute balance once you hit champion levels even when you have champion points available for a level 1 character. Power carries substantially more weight at level 1 than it does at level 70.

              I level 4 character with no gear and no champion points get +15.0% damage from +5 power; +6.4% damage from +5 critical rating; and +25.0% damage from +5 haste. Note that there is no recovery boost from the haste as a level 4 character with no gear nor champion points nor medals even has no life on hit value.

              The same values for a similarly equipped level 21 character? There is a +3.0% damage from +5 power; 1.3% damage from +5 critical rating; and +8.6% damage from +5 haste with the same no recovery boost for the same reason...
              This is very good to know, and means speed runs will be even faster than I anticipated by level dropping gear, further improving the ROI. Cheers

              Considering this, if anyone wanted to use this strategy for speed running exclusively for gems, it would be better to not use XP to stay lower level for longer completing each run potentially a fair bit quicker, improving the gems/hour farmed.

              The trade off would be less CP XP per run, which personally I would rather earn a bit more of as there is still a limit to how many gems are needed, but XP is limitless.

              From experience I'm finding the other resources farmed of which XP is the second most important to gems during a speed run are combined just as important as the gems.

              Once I've fully level dropped some gear I may be able to crunch some numbers for how much CP would be sacrificed to compare to improved gems/hour. I suspect there's a middle ground that would be optimal.

              Given this info MarkHark, if you don't neccissarily intend to use your BH gear for speed runs it would be worth taking Tin Man's advice and focusing on DPS and perhaps later reforging if vitality is needed to be able to see how far you can push in trials with a low level hero for extra DPS.

              I suspect this won't work to get any higher than normal as XP gains without boosts, or fragility may still prevent reaching higher trials.

              I would still go the Assault Tesla Armaments scattershot synergy in this case so the range may make up for some vulnerability being able it kite mobs with speed to survive without sacrificing as much DPS and use other abilities that unlock at lower levels.

              If I already had a top ranking BH kit I would try level dropping that during speed runs before the XP style first lol.
              Last edited by Keaven; 09-05-2019, 05:12 AM.
              VIQA TESO VUBA 6781
              Eternium Walkthrough

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Tin Man View Post
                Keep in mind that the attribute balance below level 70 is very different than the attribute balance once you hit champion levels even when you have champion points available for a level 1 character. Power carries substantially more weight at level 1 than it does at level 70.

                I level 4 character with no gear and no champion points get +15.0% damage from +5 power; +6.4% damage from +5 critical rating; and +25.0% damage from +5 haste. Note that there is no recovery boost from the haste as a level 4 character with no gear nor champion points nor medals even has no life on hit value.

                Your post made me realize a serious flaw in my plan. Since I haven't played new heroes (outside of AnB) in a long time, I had forgotten that Champion points do NOT give the same values to lower level characters. By the time I actually do all this, I expect I'll be in the 1900+ CLs, but that will not give me +2000 Power at Level 1.
                Yes, I was already planning on going high on Haste, as facing mobs at 1.3 attacks/second is a Royal pain in the backside, but now I'll probably make it my 301 attribute. Not sure if I should include power on the jewels though, as even at lower levels one-thousand CPs should pack quite the punch.

                Also, Trials are not available until Level 10, and before that all mobs should be "lower-than-your-hero" level.

                The biggest week spot for a level 1 character in level 70 equipment is lack of vitality, regeneration and life on hit in order to be able to survive being hit. A level 1 character will get lots of armor from the gear itself so that makes up for the lack of armor from level. Lack of vitality will be a big issue which will have to be made up by the gear. You will actually punch stronger at level 1 than at level 70 will the same gear. You will not be able to survive as much though.
                I actually suggested the same to Keaven, before realizing that all he wanted to do was speedruns.

                When I am pushing a new character for ANB I load up on haste and power for the push to level 70 and ignore critical rating and critical damage.
                I feel the same way about it, the main difference being that in ANB you have no previous CPs to allocate, unlike the present case.

                Don't bother with the Stormgun. Go with a full Tesla Set
                If you read my previous post carefully, you'll notice the Stormgun and Ironbound are only meant to be used (for simplicity purposes) while leveling up to unlock the Tesla set.

                I still think you should focus on overwhelming loading damage onto your gear after you max out movement speed and only have exp on a single piece of jewelry at best. Personally I would not even bother with experience at all.
                But then I couldn't do the whole "How fast you can go from 1 to 70" thing, could I?
                Then again, perhaps I could move XP down to a 5-uncommons stat. Need to ponder about it a while longer.


                EDIT: Do you think I need to make Vitality the 4th stat on some of my jewels, or maybe a couple green Brilliants can do the job well enough?
                Last edited by MarkHark; 09-05-2019, 10:46 AM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by MarkHark View Post
                  is there a way to undelete one's posts? I'm sad to see ... (Tin Mans) ... contributions to this thread washing away, feels like a waste of good and hard work. Please be aware that your efforts are greatly appreciated!
                  +1 from me on this post. Tin Man did a great job experimenting with lowering level requirements and wrote up his results with a nice bit of humor and tension. 'had to find out' and I'm sorry that post has gone.

                  The summary is that level restrictions and unlocks apply to the item no the character, so items can be unlocked multiple times by different, progressively lower level characters, at a maximum of -10 levels per character, so that eventually it would be possible to lower the level requirements on an item from L70 to L1 with enough gems and effort.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by MarkHark View Post
                    ...But then I couldn't do the whole "How fast you can go from 1 to 70" thing, could I?
                    Then again, perhaps I could move XP down to a 5-uncommons stat. Need to ponder about it a while longer.
                    Considering I will be level dropping XP focused gear, and although will likely take longer to get a full kit to level 2, another goal to consider would be to see if a top ranking BH kit can be pushed higher in trials by level restricting your hero?

                    You also wouldn't need to level drop your gear fully, only to the required level of whatever abilities you need unlock. Perhaps worth chosing a strategy that rellies on ability synergies that unlock as low as possible.
                    VIQA TESO VUBA 6781
                    Eternium Walkthrough

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Keaven View Post
                      Considering I will be level dropping XP focused gear, and although will likely take longer to get a full kit to level 2, another goal to consider would be to see if a top ranking BH kit can be pushed higher in trials by level restricting your hero?.
                      I do not have the empirical data to back this up but do have the experience in observing the behavior of companions. Companions actually track fairly tightly with heroes in going up levels if the hero does not have any experience bonuses at all. So, you can interfere the results of running a hero through a trial by observing a companion. If you were to take a brand spanking new level 1 companion on a trial something like Trial Level 60 or above you would find that the companion was level 70 by the end of completing that one trial. I have done this multiple times in the past but do not recall what the threshold trial is that accomplishes the level 1 to level 70 in one pass effect. I do know the effect kicks in well south of Trial Level 80 so you would not be able to get a hero anywhere near pushing higher levels before hitting level 70. This is especially true since you are unable to skip trials until after your hero has STARTED a trial at level 70. Even if your hero finishes a trial at level 70 you only advance one level regardless of how fast you do the trial.

                      During ANB I normally hit level 70 when I complete no later than around Trial Level 20. I am running experience heavy with a 200% experience booster when doing this however. I would still be surprised is could get much higher than Trial Level 25, or even that high, while keeping your Experience Gained at 100%. You just gain too much experience per trial level relative to a lower level character during trials. Once I hit level 70 during ANB I immediately 10 step trials up until around Trial Level 50 or 60 with each pass due to the experience gained during each pass. I wanna say that I 5 step up to around Trial 80 or 90 due to the same experience gains with the 200% boosters being run and the ANB experience boost. With the all those boost the character is gaining 20 or 30 champion levels per trial. Yes, the lower champion level seem to take less experience than character level 70 but this all just adds evidence that there is no way to level restrict a hero to get much higher than something like Trial Level 30.

                      Again, no hard data to back this up and all the trial references are rough and loose but I believe even without anything firm your question should be answered.

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                      • #41
                        Great stuff Tin Man. I would have suspected that it wouldn't work, and you've already convinced me it's not worth trying

                        That's a good thing though, as it means the only viable reason for item unlocking is the strategy I've outlined for farming.

                        So if item unlocking to level 2 was unintended there's no good reason for devs to patch
                        Last edited by Keaven; 09-06-2019, 05:30 AM.
                        VIQA TESO VUBA 6781
                        Eternium Walkthrough

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                        • #42
                          The process will begin soon lol.

                          Finished a Speed runner today so started a new one.

                          Also worth noting, you can get an extra daily quest 20 gems by completing the day you delete a character, so plus the 15 gems from intro quests, the net cost of deleting a character is only 15 gems.
                          VIQA TESO VUBA 6781
                          Eternium Walkthrough

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                          • #43
                            Now I'm wondering if speed clearing would actually be any faster if you try to maintain a low level as long as possible. Your stats will provide a greater benefit, but I believe the movement speed set bonus from Assault is nerfed while you're low level. Better start off with an exp set just to be safe. I'm getting ready to try this as well, btw. It's an exciting new thing to blow a ton of gems on. lol
                            Arcanist Mage: Muse, TL 145 in 9:30
                            ANB Gold 2 BH: Shade, Rank 21 - TL 122

                            For a list of guides I've created, click here

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Shade Glow View Post
                              Now I'm wondering if speed clearing would actually be any faster if you try to maintain a low level as long as possible. Your stats will provide a greater benefit, but I believe the movement speed set bonus from Assault is nerfed while you're low level. Better start off with an exp set just to be safe. I'm getting ready to try this as well, btw. It's an exciting new thing to blow a ton of gems on. lol
                              Does not seem that Movement Speed changes as you advance levels so any movement speed bonus would not be impacted. You can have a very speedy level 1 hero if you use your CPs and gear higher than level 1 which is the reason why I made a remark a long time ago that if you are trying to speed run a level the only real critical pieces are boots and pants for speed though you would also want a weapon for punch. You already have a relative huge amount of punch due to your CPs but applying all those multiples to 100 damage is a lot different then applying it to 1300 damage.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Tin Man View Post

                                Does not seem that Movement Speed changes as you advance levels so any movement speed bonus would not be impacted. You can have a very speedy level 1 hero if you use your CPs and gear higher than level 1 which is the reason why I made a remark a long time ago that if you are trying to speed run a level the only real critical pieces are boots and pants for speed though you would also want a weapon for punch. You already have a relative huge amount of punch due to your CPs but applying all those multiples to 100 damage is a lot different then applying it to 1300 damage.
                                I'm talking about the 4 piece Assault set bonus. I know that a low level Assault set has lower movement speed in the set bonus. It's a nerf from a recent patch. You used to be able to get the full bonus at level 1.
                                Arcanist Mage: Muse, TL 145 in 9:30
                                ANB Gold 2 BH: Shade, Rank 21 - TL 122

                                For a list of guides I've created, click here

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