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Crit Rate Diminishing Returns

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  • Crit Rate Diminishing Returns

    Hey all. I searched back through the forums for the answer, and I read on a post in 2106 that ~1000 CR is when one experiences diminishing returns on further CR addition.

    Does that still hold true today?

  • #2
    There's always a diminishing return, for all Attributes other than Power and Vitality.

    Crit Chance = Critical Rating / (Critical Rating + 3000) - for Level 70
    So:
    • 500 => 14.29%
    • 1000 => 25%
    • 2000 => 40%
    • 3000 => 50%
    • 4000 => 57.14%
    • 5000 => 62.50%
    Take your pick as to when to stop...
    Eternium Files - links and details

    Eternium Guides:

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    • #3
      Thanks Nhat

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      • #4
        40-45% (Critical Chance from Critical Rating) seems to be what most high level players end up with. The reason is, at that level you are comparing adding Power vs. adding Critical Rating

        Each are 'diminishing' in their own way. Each point of Power adds the same %damage, so it is not 'diminishing' in that sense. But adding 1% when you are already at 1000% from Power, is different than adding 1% when you are at 2000%.

        The 'optimum' also depends on your Critical Damage. Obviously CR does no good without CD and vice versa.
        VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381
        ~ Gethi, mage, TL109 mobile & TL121 PC
        ~ Kisheli, XP mage, TL112
        ~ ANB-beta, TL100 (#1); ANB-1, TL116 (top 10); ANB-2, TL110 (top 10)

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        • #5
          Thank you to both. I appreciate it.

          What's the CD% of most high level players? i'm looking at the next legendary ring I'm making. AR, CR, then a 5/4 CD & probably haste split (AR is currently 932, CR is 1361, CD 888.6%, and haste is 5.55 hits per second. Power is 2095.).

          The / 4 will be either haste or power. Which do you 2 recommend.

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          • #6
            You can use the CP spreadsheet to figure out which is better for your situation, takes a bit of fiddling though.

            1. The 4 will give you about 188 for the Attribute, if you're using 3 Brilliant for the fuse - this works out to be 75.2 CP (188 / 2.5)
            2. Using the CP spreadsheet, enter your current attributes, CP allocation, synergy, companions.
            Click image for larger version  Name:	current.png Views:	1 Size:	57.1 KB ID:	86078

            3. Set the same values in the "New" column - add 75 to Haste, then Power and compare the outcome.
            => For me, adding Haste gives 42725 DPS while Power gives 42358 DPS => Haste is better.
            Click image for larger version  Name:	haste.png Views:	1 Size:	300.5 KB ID:	86080Click image for larger version  Name:	power.png Views:	1 Size:	57.3 KB ID:	86079

            Edit:
            Obviously, this only apply to the current attributes, which might change in the future...

            Generally speaking, Power have a slight advantage over Haste, since the return from power (+Damage%) is constant, while Haste suffers from diminishing returns as you add to it.
            Eternium Files - links and details

            Eternium Guides:

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Nhat View Post

              Generally speaking, Power have a slight advantage over Haste, since the return from power (+Damage%) is constant, while Haste suffers from diminishing returns as you add to it.
              So how important is it to hit 6 attacks per second with a mage? Less important than getting more power?

              And thanks to you and Coda :-)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Rytrik View Post
                So how important is it to hit 6 attacks per second with a mage? Less important than getting more power?
                Coda and others might be able to give you a better answer, I haven't given it much thought into the "maximum/optimal" attributes - just wants perfect jewelry

                Just for reference, if you're planning on 6, then you're looking at the following values for Haste, includes the 8% Synergy bonus:
                • Base: 3154 (so you'll be at 7.11 with 3 Robin/Endar)
                • 1 Robin: 2133
                • 3 Robin/Endar: 1263
                You're welcome.
                Eternium Files - links and details

                Eternium Guides:

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                • #9
                  At mid-levels, which is where you are, ~6 AS is a good target for a mage WITH minions. At higher levels you'll target more like ~6.5 AS.

                  AS isn't just about maximizing your displayed damage value. If it were, you'd target a lower number than these. AS also affects other things such as Alacrity (aids cool-downs), and other attack-speed-based procs.

                  Use one of the C.P. optimizers to find the supposed-optimum attack speed at your current level. That's the minimum you should run, and then (probably) boost it from there towards these targets, but over-doing it will cause sacrifices in other stats.

                  VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381
                  ~ Gethi, mage, TL109 mobile & TL121 PC
                  ~ Kisheli, XP mage, TL112
                  ~ ANB-beta, TL100 (#1); ANB-1, TL116 (top 10); ANB-2, TL110 (top 10)

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                  • #10
                    It turned out alright. Bummed that my AR is so low, even after using some brilliants and trillion in uncommon A1,2,3 and in the rare phase and in the epic. The CR i couldn't get higher, because i messed up my other ring by accidentally putting high level Topaz' into my AR rings in my 5/4. That was rough. And wasted great stones lol.

                    On the plus side.. i got a display 60.0% CD ring while i was generating the needed AR and CR rings.

                    Also on the plus side, it let me burn through TL80 in about 5'ish mins, and gave me a nearly 100k dps boost :-) and my abilities always seem to be available. Looking forward to 1500.

                    I have an 80 AR i.mantle. i should aim for ~1400 AR pre-mantle, correct?
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rytrik View Post
                      ... Looking forward to 1500.

                      I have an 80 AR i.mantle. i should aim for ~1400 AR pre-mantle, correct?
                      Many players target 1500 after the boost from the Mantle which stacks up to 5 times. So in your case 1500 - 80*5 = 1100

                      ​​​​​​At 1500, the % chance for Alacrity to trigger is 30%, and stops being proportional to AR. In addition 1500 yields 50% CoolDown.

                      However, some builds use even more. Personally, I consider the above a minimum.
                      Last edited by Coda; 02-15-2018, 02:24 AM.
                      VUFO ZEBE ZAQI 1381
                      ~ Gethi, mage, TL109 mobile & TL121 PC
                      ~ Kisheli, XP mage, TL112
                      ~ ANB-beta, TL100 (#1); ANB-1, TL116 (top 10); ANB-2, TL110 (top 10)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks again to both of you. I have a much better idea of where to go from here.

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