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Pointless regenerate and timing.

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  • DavidTheDavid (Producer)
    replied
    I love it when developers explain things. Smart people making code do smart things, for the sake of fun.

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  • Mihnea
    replied
    Ok, then starting with the next patch, Regenerate will heal pre-action, so you get the heal when you play two in a row (because the stacking logic runs after the pre-action triggers).

    Witches: shooting albatrosses with impunity since 2018.

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  • Guest
    Guest replied
    Regarding regenerate... When things are getting desperate and you're holding a regenerate token, feeling like five hp might make the difference you need. Start of turn comes round and you draw.... Another regenerate!
    Water, water, everywhere, and not a drop to drink!

    The stacking solution would probably be a bit dodgy... Witches can end up with several copies of the same token after all.

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  • Guest
    Guest replied
    Awesome. Thanks for the detailed explanations Mihnea.

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  • Mihnea
    replied
    Originally posted by Daddadook View Post
    First up, I've had a few glasses of home brew but I've been meaning to report a couple of things for a while and now have some peace and quiet to do so. Hope it makes sense.
    Cheers!

    Originally posted by Daddadook View Post
    1-doro and presumably other bot witches occasionally play regenerate at the end of the turn. There may be some benefit to this, but I've never spotted it.
    This happens in a few circumstances, like after an orb crit, when the AI sees all the tokens are cheaper, but doesn't understand they will go back to their original cost after playing one. Fixing it involves a surprising amount of gymnastics in the code, and it wouldn't make the AI that much stronger, so there's always been more important stuff to work on.

    Originally posted by Daddadook View Post
    2-when IS a token played, for the sake of previous token effects? This one's kind of hard to explain but I have examples..
    When something says "each time you play a token", that effect applies after the effects of the token.

    Originally posted by Daddadook View Post
    If regenerate has already been played another regenerate token is the only one you can play which will not gain you five life.
    Yeah, because the stacking rules kick in when the second Regenerate adds its effect, so part of the action; the effect of the first Regenerate is removed before the second token is resolved, therefore its post-action trigger never runs. It's possible to work around it in this particular case, but it would still be wasteful to play a second Regenerate when one is active - you'd get 5 HP more than you do now, but it's less than what you'd get if you waited one turn. Or we could make them stack, but that's not my call - I'll talk to Gerula about it.

    Originally posted by Daddadook View Post
    Iron spike and centurion and centurion scutum seem unintuitive in that when you block you deal damage but the bonus defense shows up on the block you just made rather than the "next" block as described in the scutum text. I think it also is applied after damage is dealt and is therefore null,but that happened too fast for me to be sure.
    This one's an oversight, I'll fix it for the next build. What happens is that the game runs the block triggers after you receive damage, so Iron Spike does its thing. This causes the damage sent triggers to run immediately, so Centurion Scutum adds its defense buff, which subscribes to the block trigger to remove itself. Then the game continues going through the block triggers, but now the defense buff is there, so it removes itself immediately, and you never benefit from it (the incoming attack which caused all this has already been resolved at this point). I'll make it ignore the trigger if the action which added it hasn't ended yet.

    Originally posted by Daddadook View Post
    It seems that effects are triggering on resolution rather than initiation, which is honestly fine when it comes down to it but does seem odd in certain situations.
    There are only two exceptions to that in the whole game. Lightbringer dispels negative effects before the healing token is resolved. I'm not sure why we did it like that (it was a long time ago), but probably to prevent weirdness in case some healing debuff was active. The other exception is Blood Pact, which deals the self damage before the token is resolved. This is done because it replaces the AP cost, so we wanted to keep it similar to how AP works (AP is spent before the action runs).
    ​​​​
    Originally posted by Daddadook View Post
    3-not really a bug but I was surprised that the centurion scutum doesn't react to damage over time.
    It's intentional, but we should probably be more careful with the descriptions. We couldn't find a good way of saying "when you deal damage except over time". "Each time you deal damage directly" might work, but is Iron Spike really "direct" damage? Usually when we say "each time you deal damage" it excludes DoT, but there are cases like Crown of Thorns when that's not true (in that example, we want to include both DoT and magic damage done by things like Iron Spike).
    Last edited by Mihnea; 01-14-2018, 10:56 AM. Reason: Fixed incorrect quote markup

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  • Guest
    Guest started a topic Pointless regenerate and timing.

    Pointless regenerate and timing.

    First up, I've had a few glasses of home brew but I've been meaning to report a couple of things for a while and now have some peace and quiet to do so. Hope it makes sense.

    1-doro and presumably other bot witches occasionally play regenerate at the end of the turn. There may be some benefit to this, but I've never spotted it.

    2-when IS a token played, for the sake of previous token effects? This one's kind of hard to explain but I have examples..

    If regenerate has already been played another regenerate token is the only one you can play which will not gain you five life.

    Iron spike and centurion and centurion scutum seem unintuitive in that when you block you deal damage but the bonus defense shows up on the block you just made rather than the "next" block as described in the scutum text. I think it also is applied after damage is dealt and is therefore null,but that happened too fast for me to be sure.

    It seems that effects are triggering on resolution rather than initiation, which is honestly fine when it comes down to it but does seem odd in certain situations.
    ​​​​

    3-not really a bug but I was surprised that the centurion scutum doesn't react to damage over time.
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