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  • Free-Item Rotation

    Hi everyone,

    I noticed that in order of trying something new I have to invest a lot of time in farming gold.
    Then after a few test-runs I'm done with most try-outs.... Lots of hours blown in the wind (again^^), that brings frustration.

    Therefore I thought why not add a feature like in Leauge of Legends, the Free-Champion Rotation.
    Every week there would be a limited number of items free to use only for that week. Next week different items would be available.
    To permanently own an item you would still have to buy it.

    I realize lots of items are only useful in certain combinations, but I still think it would be a succes.
    For new players it would add variability in the beginning, adressing the complain "there isn't enough to explore in Iron Bound"
    It would create interest in buying items after you succesfully tested them for free, which would be good for both sides.
    I wouldnt need to spend gold for fail try-outs and I guess Iron Bound will still sell more gold at the end.
    But I think the biggest advantage is that it keeps new players interested and in that order growing the community.
    Which is what we need most in my opinion.

    Good luck and have fun playing,
    Bockwurst

  • #2
    Interesting idea, thanks. The developers read these boards, so they will see this.

    Comment


    • #3
      If this game is truly about skill, in creating a build which allows you to defeat your opponents, why is gold involved in it at all? Why are there 'better' and 'worse' items? Surely all items should be free, and all items should be balanced, in that the positives and negatives balance each other out?

      Otherwise, those who invest more time in the game can do better than those that are new to the game, regardless of skill level - surely that is the opposite of what this game is trying to achieve?

      If the aim of making items cost gold, and only being able to reclaim half of that amount when you sell them, and of having a levelling up system (where very obviously the more money you spend, and the higher level you are, the better), is to force impatient players to spend real life money to buy gold, then doesn't that go against the very essence of the game - which is for ingenuity and tactics/skill to allow you to triumph over your opponents?

      At the very least, you should be able to sell back items for the same price as you pay for them. Not being able to do so just discourages players from buying stuff to try out.

      Comment


      • #4
        I played until I was in the Top 10 without investing a single dime and it didn't even take long.
        Furthermore are the expensive items not even the strongest... you should check out some builds that are posted on this board.
        It is about skill and the right combination of items.

        People are here because they like the game.
        If you want to trash it, at least go in the Off-Topic thread for this.
        But it would be best if you leave your frustration at home!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TheBockwurst View Post
          I played until I was in the Top 10 without investing a single dime and it didn't even take long.
          Furthermore are the expensive items not even the strongest... you should check out some builds that are posted on this board.
          It is about skill and the right combination of items.

          People are here because they like the game.
          If you want to trash it, at least go in the Off-Topic thread for this.
          But it would be best if you leave your frustration at home!
          Why are you assuming I don't like the game? Nor did I say all expensive items are better than cheaper items - but having said that, to try out different combinations, it does take a significant amount of gold, especially if you want to try the more expensive items that are up to 15,000 gold each.

          And with regards to levelling up, are you going to argue it is possible that being lower level is better than being higher level, all other things being equal? That is just a very obvious gold-sink.

          Why do you only get back half the value of the item when you sell it? Does that encourage or discourage players to buy items to try out different builds?

          If this game is about 'skill and the right combination of items' why do you have to grind to earn gold to buy them? How does the grinding help?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Raukodur View Post

            Why are you assuming I don't like the game? Nor did I say all expensive items are better than cheaper items - but having said that, to try out different combinations, it does take a significant amount of gold, especially if you want to try the more expensive items that are up to 15,000 gold each.

            And with regards to levelling up, are you going to argue it is possible that being lower level is better than being higher level, all other things being equal? That is just a very obvious gold-sink.

            Why do you only get back half the value of the item when you sell it? Does that encourage or discourage players to buy items to try out different builds?

            If this game is about 'skill and the right combination of items' why do you have to grind to earn gold to buy them? How does the grinding help?
            Practice matches give 4x4x2400=38400 gold
            used to be 4x4x2000=32000 gold
            Leveling up all characters (200hp) costs 4x2200=8800 gold
            used to be 4x5600=22400 gold
            Resale value is 50%
            used to be 25%
            They've already made it a lot more player friendly

            You get back 50% because this makes you support this game one way or another. Spend $ or play more

            This game is F2P and not P2W. You can't really ask for more in current era of online gaming

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Patarei View Post
              Practice matches give 4x4x2400=38400 gold
              used to be 4x4x2000=32000 gold
              Leveling up all characters (200hp) costs 4x2200=8800 gold
              used to be 4x5600=22400 gold
              Resale value is 50%
              used to be 25%
              They've already made it a lot more player friendly

              You get back 50% because this makes you support this game one way or another. Spend $ or play more

              This game is F2P and not P2W. You can't really ask for more in current era of online gaming
              This seems to prove my point.

              Why make things cheaper if there is no problem with items and levelling up costing significant amounts of gold?

              The reason why these things are made cheaper, and why you get more money practicing, is because without money you can't do anything in this game. Who plays with the base items, and stays at level 1? If expensive items are not needed, why not take it to an extreme, and just play with the stuff you start off with, and stay at level 1? I wonder how far you would, and how much fun you would have?

              The whole point of this game is to experiment repeatedly. Even if you find a really good combination, it will get boring playing with it after a certain amount of time, and you will want to try a different combination. And you will often find the combination doesn't work how you imagined, and you need to tweak it, or start again. You can sell your items, but that will only get you back half their value, and chances are, most players who don't grind can't afford the more expensive items.

              By your own calculations, if you complete all the practice sessions you will earn 38,400 gold. You won't be able to do that unless you have levelled up all your characters, and also bought some reasonable stuff for them, so you will have spent at least 8,800 gold, + whatever you spent to kit them out to be able to win all the practice levels.

              What does that leave you with? maximum just under 30,000, but in reality, probably closer to 15,000-20,000.

              You can buy single items for 15,000 gold. Sure, you don't need to, but what if you want to so it fits with your build? That is an extreme example, but lots of items cost 5,000-10,000 each.

              Then the only way is to grind, to play just to win gold. Why? To force impatient people to spend real life money on the game? How many players will just leave the game? If the aim of this game is to experiment and use combination of items and tactics to win; then paying gold for items, getting half their value back when you sell them, and having a levelling up system that costs gold, works against this.

              I would think the developers need to think of a different way to make money from this game (e.g. having an avatar, and being able to spend money on aesthetic changes to your avatar that don't affect gameplay), and if the purpose of this is not to make money, then it really makes no sense whatsoever.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Raukodur View Post
                Why make things cheaper if there is no problem with items and levelling up costing significant amounts of gold?
                Because an average player is loud and not very bright

                Read your posts. I don't think you've ever heard anything about theorycrafting, but it's the fundamental element of this game

                By the way there's Arena
                - 12 predefined equipment sets
                - bots in 200 and 500 gold games
                It solves most of your issues

                Ps. If you can't achieve 50%+ win rate against bots (Arena) you shouldn't be playing strategy games

                Comment


                • #9
                  Good Morning,

                  I only read Patarei's posts, who seems right about everything but also being talking to a brick wall^^
                  I wanna be done with this discussion.

                  Can somebody please move this in an Off-Topic thread or at least out of my post about Item-Rotation?
                  It confuses, doesn't belong here and I really wanna explore how others think about this idea.

                  Thanks in advance,
                  Bockwurst

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheBockwurst View Post
                    Good Morning,

                    I only read Patarei's posts, who seems right about everything but also being talking to a brick wall^^
                    I wanna be done with this discussion.

                    Can somebody please move this in an Off-Topic thread or at least out of my post about Item-Rotation?
                    It confuses, doesn't belong here and I really wanna explore how others think about this idea.

                    Thanks in advance,
                    Bockwurst
                    Wow, you guys really don't like anyone disagreeing with you, or putting forward different ideas - or maybe you are so defensive because someone is criticising something you hold so dear (i.e. Ironbound)? You do realise things get better by users giving feedback?

                    And Patarei, again, I love the assumptions, I've been playing RPGs a LONG time, but why not purposefully misunderstand what I'm saying and just say it shows I don't understand theorycrafting.
                    And again, making the assumption that anyone criticising any aspect of the game is doing so because they are affected by it, rather than making a general point about how they believe a game they like, can do better - I'm not in this situation, but I believe this is an aspect of the game that is going to put a lot of people off playing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheBockwurst View Post
                      Hi everyone,

                      I noticed that in order of trying something new I have to invest a lot of time in farming gold.
                      Then after a few test-runs I'm done with most try-outs.... Lots of hours blown in the wind (again^^), that brings frustration.

                      Therefore I thought why not add a feature like in Leauge of Legends, the Free-Champion Rotation.
                      Every week there would be a limited number of items free to use only for that week. Next week different items would be available.
                      To permanently own an item you would still have to buy it.

                      I realize lots of items are only useful in certain combinations, but I still think it would be a succes.
                      For new players it would add variability in the beginning, adressing the complain "there isn't enough to explore in Iron Bound"
                      It would create interest in buying items after you succesfully tested them for free, which would be good for both sides.
                      I wouldnt need to spend gold for fail try-outs and I guess Iron Bound will still sell more gold at the end.
                      But I think the biggest advantage is that it keeps new players interested and in that order growing the community.
                      Which is what we need most in my opinion.

                      Good luck and have fun playing,
                      Bockwurst
                      Why did you suggest this if it wasn't because of an issue with spending gold on items to try out and running out of resources, resulting in needing to farm, which is not an enjoyable experience in any game, and can lead players to leave the game?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheBockwurst View Post
                        I really wanna explore how others think about this idea.
                        Do you really think players would be happy if they make random items free to use for a week? Or they would be unhappy with the selection?

                        Probably it would cause developers more problems than it solves + it's difficult to do and doesn't really fit with the game design. There have been other ideas and I like them more

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Raukodur View Post
                          Wow, you guys really don't like anyone disagreeing with you, or putting forward different ideas - or maybe you are so defensive because someone is criticising something you hold so dear (i.e. Ironbound)? You do realise things get better by users giving feedback?
                          Well try to "criticize" yourself too. I'll show you how
                          Originally posted by Raukodur View Post
                          The whole point of this game is to experiment repeatedly
                          Did developers tell you that? No? What if you are wrong? I guess you didn't think about it
                          Originally posted by Raukodur View Post
                          Otherwise, those who invest more time in the game can do better than those that are new to the game, regardless of skill level - surely that is the opposite of what this game is trying to achieve?
                          Where did you get that idea? In ranked games you don't get to fight those who have invested more time in the game for one simple reason: they have much higher rating



                          Originally posted by Raukodur View Post
                          And Patarei, again, I love the assumptions, I've been playing RPGs a LONG time, but why not purposefully misunderstand what I'm saying and just say it shows I don't understand theorycrafting.
                          And again, making the assumption that anyone criticising any aspect of the game is doing so because they are affected by it, rather than making a general point about how they believe a game they like, can do better - I'm not in this situation, but I believe this is an aspect of the game that is going to put a lot of people off playing.
                          I'm not assuming anything. I know you can't even do simple math (Daddadook's berserker thread). Theorycrafting is a lot more complicated than comparing two weapons

                          You posted your build (Berserker Cleaver + Steel Hilt) in the other berserker thread + mentioned what you tried before that. I know for sure that you are talking about your own poor choices

                          EDIT: Sorry for OT. I think you can delete this thread and start a new one if you want real discussion or ask David (Support) to clean it (remove my posts)
                          Last edited by Patarei; 03-14-2018, 03:35 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            via Imgflip Meme Generator



                            The conversation topic is good, and different ideas are good. The design decisions behind this get surprisingly complex, and the process of getting to a good idea involves a lot of throwing mud against the walls. As long we're respectful to one another, disagreements can move us to good solutions and perhaps point out dilemmas that the game designers can find creative solutions to.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Patarei View Post
                              Well try to "criticize" yourself too. I'll show you how
                              Did developers tell you that? No? What if you are wrong? I guess you didn't think about it
                              Where did you get that idea? In ranked games you don't get to fight those who have invested more time in the game for one simple reason: they have much higher rating




                              I'm not assuming anything. I know you can't even do simple math (Daddadook's berserker thread). Theorycrafting is a lot more complicated than comparing two weapons

                              You posted your build (Berserker Cleaver + Steel Hilt) in the other berserker thread + mentioned what you tried before that. I know for sure that you are talking about your own poor choices

                              EDIT: Sorry for OT. I think you can delete this thread and start a new one if you want real discussion or ask David (Support) to clean it (remove my posts)
                              Sigh...

                              One of the main aims of this game is NOT to experiment with different builds? Like arguing just for the sake of arguing?

                              You KNOW I can't do simple math? Because I asked about whether ardent cleaver is possible alternative to the viscous axe in the berserker enraged build? And this is to do with mathematical ability rather than knowledge of game mechanics regarding what gets doubled when mastery perk triggers for the berserker? 'My own poor choices'? I love the way the personal insults creep in when logical arguments are running dry...



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