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Beautiful match! Endless Infinity! (aka the SOSC complaint thread)

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    #16
    ...and there was much rejoicing.

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      #17
      Originally posted by David (Support) View Post
      One change coming in the next patch is that wanderer items won't stack.
      Usually, games encourage you to get a complete set

      Jk

      Anyway, one of the reasons that this build became popular is that it has a high rate of success against the demigods....Using most of the other builds against demigods, if the RNG is in your opponent's favour, you have nearly no chance of winning...the difference is just that high....

      oh well, if some are having difficulties to kill these annoying healers:
      1. The berserk berserker build (ulfberht,spirit wolf skull, peace of mind, lucky gold coin) - depends on luck against the demigods but against the slow pace of the wanderer builds, you have all the time in the world to setup the kill....
      2. The heavy hit berserker build(ex: atlantean sword,colossus grip,medal of cruelty) - kill the wanderer before it has time to start cycling...
      3.The witch foehammer build (ex: foe hammer, eye of the storm/heart of the storm, sylvan fetish, shard of second chance/jar of horus) - I personally prefer the shard of second chance as you'll not run out of token while the jar of horus build requires you to kill the wanderer before you run out of good tokens....
      4. if your enemy a wanderer who is NOT a crusader, reforged manticore sting will get the job done....(each critical hit with it will reduce the max enemy health by 10 )

      As you can see, plenty of counters....

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        #18
        Builds that utilize this combo are a drag to encounter. It's cheap (i.e. dirty), widely exploited at high ranks and the battles are often extremely long. It is my opinion they should be nerfed or altered in some way and I wonder if any of you agree.

        These wanderers require no skill or strategy other than "play every token you get, ad infinitum, ad nauseam." I do realize it is possible to burst them down before they start cycling - my pirate has a good success rate with this, and I have beaten 2 or 3 with the right combo (and a lot of luck) on my crusader - but with anything else you might as well suicide... I also realize they can be countered with certain items, but should I really dedicate 25% of my equipment to stop one annoying build?

        Perhaps the second chance could be limited to a certain number of extra tokens. That seems like it could be a fair balance to me.

        I'm curious what you all think. Thanks for reading.

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          #19
          Yes, this will be addressed. It's not healthy for the game's meta.

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            #20
            You should see the Discord conversations on this. About once a day someone has a good rant hating on SoSC.

            Comment


              #21
              well, it's true, sosc implies a completely different strategy in fights.
              But, in my opinion, it is the same as certain builds with very high rate of healing.
              If you combine sosc with high healing rates, as common in sosc build, you get another game dimension.

              Personally I think duels would be more interesting with starting HP = 100 or 150,
              maximum combo does not exceed 30, more or less as it happens in arena... and special class state starting earlier, without using martyr Cape.

              I like sosc in Assassin build, not of interest in other classes.




              ​​​​​​

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                #22
                Originally posted by Blahaha View Post
                Builds that utilize this combo are a drag to encounter. It's cheap (i.e. dirty), widely exploited at high ranks and the battles are often extremely long. It is my opinion they should be nerfed or altered in some way and I wonder if any of you agree.

                These wanderers require no skill or strategy other than "play every token you get, ad infinitum, ad nauseam." I do realize it is possible to burst them down before they start cycling - my pirate has a good success rate with this, and I have beaten 2 or 3 with the right combo (and a lot of luck) on my crusader - but with anything else you might as well suicide... I also realize they can be countered with certain items, but should I really dedicate 25% of my equipment to stop one annoying build?

                Perhaps the second chance could be limited to a certain number of extra tokens. That seems like it could be a fair balance to me.

                I'm curious what you all think. Thanks for reading.
                I've noticed that there has been much complaints against this build (a build that I also use sometimes to be honest, I keep two sets of items per class to switch playstyles) but here's my own experience thus far, which I hope, would clear up some consternation.

                This build is a slow and risky build to say the least, with a reliance on a little (or a lot, depending) of luck (RNG gods have a nasty way of messing with your toekn draws no matter what), and the right opponent (more importantly, the right class and items on opponent) for a win. If the opponent can burn AP, do damage over time, disable tokens, make multiple strikes per turn, reflect damage amongst many other counters, this build is even more riskier.
                ​​​​​​
                if we break it down, it's much easier to see really:

                As a berserker: you are actively trying to get yourself enraged because that is where the real pain comes from using this build, but that is given that you've got the berserker rage token in hand by the time this happens (which isn't always the case, there are literally 30 tokens altogether after all) because if you don't, you have 1-3 rounds maximum before you're dead. Assasins, witches, pirates (omfg) or even other berserkers can easily take you down at this point. Even before getting there, there are so many items that can make this difficult, AP burning items, token disabling items, damage reflecting items (or classes), damage over time items (so, so very painful). Meanwhile, as someone using this build, your trinkets are not for damage or defence but just for trying to cycle through the tokens on hand, which can be incredible painful for the first 5-8 turns, the same number of turns that opponents are beating you silly (omfg pirates).

                As a crusader: a very slow grind with back and forth healing exclusively based on your tokens alone as your trinket slots are useless for damage or defence (10hp heals after finishing up a full draw of tokens is nothing if you've been dealt 30-50 damage per turn from opponent). While there is a higher chance of troll healing given that your RNG prayers are answered for crusaders, you've basically got nothing else going for you except for your token draws. Anyone with two attack items can mess you up pretty good before you get a chance to truly make use of the build.

                As an assassin: this is where I use this build the most, followed by the berserker, and by gods, the risks I take here is ridiculous. In an attempt to stack up my damage, I'm fully relying on my evade chances, which do not work out as well as I hope. By the time I actually make my first move, I am down to easily 50+hp. Like I mentioned above for the berserker, AP burns, Damage over time (super ouch), token disables etc can totally ruin my attempt to make this build count. In fact, Blahaha, you fought against me with this build on my assasin, I won once, you kicked my butt twice right after that (we kept matching up with each other). I only won due to lucky draws that this build depends on, while I evades more than usual (happens once every 4-5 games or so).

                As a witch: this build for the witch I feel is about the same as the crusader, alot of damage taken with the hope that the right tokens show up. But unlike berserkers and crusaders, I don't really have that much AP to play around without the wanderer shield which I cannot use as witch. So with witches, again, no extra benefits from trinkets, with only main or secondary weapon for any kind of damage, and again, same thing as above for counters (AP, Damage over time, Tokens etc.).

                I don't play pirates yet (too expensive) but from what I can understand, without the pirate based trinkets, you cannot really do the quick and stacking damage output that pirates are known for while you do your best (pray) to survive long enough to make use of this build later on. Again, like the witch, limited AP counter, so there's only so much you can do.

                While yes, this build isn't a genius build, it is also a build that is super risky and depends far too much on token draws via RNG. Meanwhile, due to the trinket slots being utilized, you are also looking at a self imposed vulnerability with less damage output and defence overall. At high level games, most opponents are going to hurt you silly within the first 5-8 rounds, sometimes, killing you by then even. For this build to work, you have to survive until at least round 10, while hoping for the right tokens to be in hand by then.

                Comment


                  #23
                  I'll disagree on two points:
                  Crusader with Durendal, Wanderer Shield, SoSC, and Radiant Relic can easily stack 30hp heals per turn at about 6-8 turns. I think this is OP.
                  Assassin with Disarm (reduced to 3 in stealth!) or with numbing poison can lock you down pretty quick. Again OP.
                  There are of course counters to these builds, but they tend to be lower percentage against the DGs in my experience. RNG plays a part as you mentioned as well, but much lower in my experience than you describe.
                  The bigger complaint I have is it completely devalues the tokens and changes the nature of the game. SoSC doesn't require much strategy, just burn tokens. (One pirate build is on the opposite end of this spectrum and should be addressed too.)
                  Last edited by Earlomorton; 01-02-2019, 09:44 PM. Reason: Got interrupted

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Earlomorton View Post
                    I'll disagree on two points:
                    Crusader with Durendal, Wanderer Shield, SoSC, and Radiant Relic can easily stack 30hp heals per turn at about 6-8 turns. I think this is OP.
                    Assassin with Disarm (reduced to 3!) or with numbing poison instealth can lock you down. Again op
                    True for the crusader yes, but then what of say, a berserker duel handing with say, collosal grip. By turn 6-8, you've already been damaged to at least 120-150. If it's a pirate, you're talking about 150 - 180 damage. I've received and have done both of this to be honest.

                    As for the assaains, well, with or without sosc, you've still got a very angry one shot killer and I'm sure we all know a number of other combination of items that are just as or even more scary really.

                    I think in general, there are a number of one-sided (seemingly) combos for this game. Some combos have become more popular than others, but just like anything in-game, there's always counters.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      See my updated comments, thought I could sneak in an edit.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Earlomorton View Post
                        See my updated comments, thought I could sneak in an edit.
                        I actually do agree with you on the lack of strategy and changes to the gameplay overall with this. I myself have two sets of items per class, one with this build and one without. I only ever use this build if I'm feeling lucky and go for the risks, buf 60-80% of the time, this doesn't work out well for me (therefore my point about the RNG and luck in general). But yes, it's a totally brainless build, but one that also hangs on the right tokens coming out at the right time. However, there are also very effective counters as well, which works great for countering many other builds (I mean, who doesn't want to cause more damage over time or suck dry the opponent AP right?). I just think that overall, while this build "seems" OP, it isn't all that bad. In fact, going against a fully equipped pirate is far scarier in my opinion. Been at the short end of that stick (read: 4-5 turns and oh, I'm dead...)

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                          #27
                          I'm not disagreeing with you on the existence of counters. I have a zerker that can do a minimum of 180 dmg in one turn with BR and averages over 220. Designed specifically for SoSC wanderer builds. But it's not very good against any other fast builds and really and only wins 60% against the DGs.
                          I also have played all the SoSC builds.
                          I mentioned on the Discord thread that I think SoSC 'problem' is compounded by the existence of the DGs. To get much above 3100-3200 rank you need to be able to consistently beat the DGs at 80-90% ( or wait along time in queue and do well at PvP). Most SoSC builds can do the former. A lot of counter builds can't do as well, so won't rank for players. And I think this applies to more than just SoSC, without the DGs in their current state, I expect you'll see more general variety at the top (though I could be wrong on this) and perhaps a little less use of the cheese builds. Of course DGs are needed due to current game population.
                          I hear you on the pirate and the 6 turn kill. At least that doesnt take 20 minutes.
                          As far as the subject of the post: I'm not heavily invested one way or the other, but think SoSC is 'outside the margins' if you will, and would vote for it getting nerfed at the end of the day.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Earlomorton View Post
                            I'm not disagreeing with you on the existence of counters. I have a zerker that can do a minimum of 180 dmg in one turn with BR and averages over 220. Designed specifically for SoSC wanderer builds. But it's not very good against any other fast builds and really and only wins 60% against the DGs.
                            I also have played all the SoSC builds.
                            I mentioned on the Discord thread that I think SoSC 'problem' is compounded by the existence of the DGs. To get much above 3100-3200 rank you need to be able to consistently beat the DGs at 80-90% ( or wait along time in queue and do well at PvP). Most SoSC builds can do the former. A lot of counter builds can't do as well, so won't rank for players. And I think this applies to more than just SoSC, without the DGs in their current state, I expect you'll see more general variety at the top (though I could be wrong on this) and perhaps a little less use of the cheese builds. Of course DGs are needed due to current game population.
                            I hear you on the pirate and the 6 turn kill. At least that doesnt take 20 minutes.
                            As far as the subject of the post: I'm not heavily invested one way or the other, but think SoSC is 'outside the margins' if you will, and would vote for it getting nerfed at the end of the day.
                            Actually yes, I forgot to mention that bit about demigods. With the sosc build, it's much easier to fight against demigods as compared to other builds. That's the real reason why I even started exploring this build, just to have a chance to live long enough to deal with demigods (Jack, oh bloody Jack). I started a thread a while ago about having a selection option for classes/items before every battle so as to have a more dynamic play. Of course this means a lot of work for the dev team but I believe it will add a whole lot of value for players while also addressing issues such as this amongst many others (different builds for AI Vs Human players, different class/item choices depending on who you are facing). Just by knowing what you are up against and having the option of choosing the right class/item for that specific fight can make a world of difference in my opinion, while adding a whole new layer and depth to the game.

                            Comment


                              #29


                              ​​​​​​​Originally posted:
                              "That set up is the most zero skill set up I have ever come across. See these endless heal set ups and just think, that is exactly what a snowflake would use."


                              Not all healers are mindless builds. The healing build I just switched away from, for entertainment sake, took a bit of planning, takes a good bit of in-match planning, and never used Toth, SOSC, Radiant thingy, or the Light Medal ( crusader only, gives healing token, on mastery).
                              MH:Crusader Smasher
                              OH: Holy Shell
                              T1: Pratorian Emblem
                              T2:Cursed Ankh.
                              Perk: Mastery

                              while this build did not beat out the truly mindless and non-tactical builds like Atlanteans, black beards w\ Expensive Parrot, and the other 3 builds allowed, in order to reach top 100. It was tactful and entertaining enough to carry me from starting rank (1400?) to over 3100. And took many players by surprise as they could not stop my last stand,nor could they avoid triggering my mastery.
                              Also, the longer the match went on, the more dire their circumstance became, as I constantly increased their crit rate, as well as my own.
                              Had a few matches,victorious, in which I had healing totals over 800hp.
                              But, because I didn't use SOSC, I had to be very meticulous in my token use. And use my, not constant, but fairly often, shield reflection as an attack platform. Prepping my defense for return damage; and either forcing or seducing the opponent into taking the chance and attacking me.
                              Probably, at the top of the charts for least mindless, most precarious, intricate, and creative builds that I've ever seen since I started playing last July or August. Season 2, I believe. I make these statements as observationally and humbly as possible.

                              At a couple points, I switched out the Pratorian Emblem for the Blessings Band. Or the Smasher for the Reforged Grond.
                              I consider the Crusader to be the farthest character from mindless, as he's still the most limited; albeit capable and powerfully annoying w\ some builds.
                              Last edited by W4RNPE4CE; 01-06-2019, 02:18 AM.
                              What is peace, without war?

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                                #30
                                W4RNPE4CE , it is highly admirable that you don't use what I class as a cheat and use SoSC.

                                currently I am using 3 builds, not enough to get me into the top 100 this time, however keeps me circling the 3100's. They are as below:-

                                what I will say is the Beserker is useless against anything that is dual wielding. That is mainly there to just annoy the whoptards that hide behind 40% evade.

                                The Pirate is something I am still playing around with to try and not get the same build as all the top guys. Sadly I have been sucked into the parrot.

                                The Crusader build is by far the most technical to win a fight with and of course requires a lot of luck with regards to tokens and not loosing the extra critical hit %.

                                You'll see I don't even own the SoSC anymore as it was getting beyond a joke how lifeless it was playing games with that. Nowadays, I just surrender to them lot and let them get on with it.

                                What I have said in other posts is that, it is better to get up to 3000+ rating and then drop back down into the mid to low 2000's. One you actually get a match there and two it can be far more competitive.

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