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    1.2.5 discussion

    WHAT?!? I thought the whole point of 2-handed weapons was that the parry made them 'better' against dual wield builds. If they can only parry once, what's the point? Otherwise, like the balance changes.

    #2
    I’m still not 100% happy with parry mechanics, but this is a step forward, the RNG was way too strong and frustrating. We wont stop looing for a better solution, of course.

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      #3
      How about it can parry multiple times, but after each parry the chance goes down?

      Because if parry remains nerfed as it is, 2-handers are complete crap (even more so than they were).

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        #4
        Maybe let it block only attacks after first recieved?
        I'm so sorry for my english..

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          #5
          Or make block chance static (40%?) and block damage equal to your weapon damage. And instead of +5% +10% block chance +2 +4 damage blocked..
          I'm so sorry for my english..

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            #6
            Those 2 wouldn't work. The first would render parry useless against single weapon opponents. The second is actually making it better than it was. 40% is higher than most non-staff build's parry chance, and 2-handed weapon damage is greater than single-hand weapons, so that limitation would really only apply against buffed attacks.

            But thinking on it more, why was this even a problem? Worst case scenario is that you block more attacks than expected which just gives parity (since the one parrying forewent attacking)..

            But another suggestion if you must nerf it, let it block everything, but make it like diamond armor and block all but 1 or 2 damage.

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              #7
              I think the solution is to give low % chances for parry, but give them +15% or so vs. one-handed weapons, reflecting the ease of parrying a smaller weapon with a larger one. Then the chances of parrying are low but not inconsiderable vs. 2H, but higher vs. 1H and only likely to block multiples vs. dual wield or Chain Strikes. You could even have some weapons (Ice Blade in particular) with a base parry of 0, only upped by trinkets or bonus vs. 1H weapons.

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                #8
                The problem is the developers' premise. With the exception of Ice Blade the only way to parry is to forego attacking. In exchange for that there should be a really good reward. Compare to stealth which is similar. I would have gone the other way and increased parry's effectiveness because I thought it was under powered. Now, in exchange for giving up a strong attack you get a small chance to block one attack from your opponent. Except in special circumstances that is a very bad trade. Especially considering the devs have tried to create a rock-paper-scissors situation with 2-handers being 'better' against dual weild, which they no longer are.

                The real problem is games are so short they are dominated by RNG. And apparently that occurring in this one area was too much for the devs. The same thing can happen with critical hits, class special states triggering, perks triggering, or other random chance built into the game. You either have to live with it, or get rid of it. I just don't understand why THIS instance of it was too much to bear (or why the devs think the new rules are an improvement).

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                  #9
                  BAgate caught us! Revert, revert!

                  You are right, i feel the same, but we had to try. We only have 1 month left for experiments, will be way more difficult for changes like this after release.

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                    #10
                    I didn't realize the timeline was so tight. It makes a lot more sense now. Enjoy the final push!

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Gerula (Developer) View Post
                      BAgate caught us! Revert, revert!

                      You are right, i feel the same, but we had to try. We only have 1 month left for experiments, will be way more difficult for changes like this after release.
                      Why?
                      I'm so sorry for my english..

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                        #12
                        From my point of view:

                        Once per turn it is just a lousy block.
                        The rock-paper-scissors relation between weapons is destroyed. I would like very much to keep this up.
                        The RNG still has the potential to be annoying.
                        The new parry will sound something likes this: At the end of each turn, if your weapon is ready, gain parry. Ofc can block more attacks per turn.

                        A better parry, as i see it in the future, when time will allow us a major change like that, probably will have a diminishing return (up or down).

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                          #13
                          Just to throw out there, but IMO:

                          1) parry needs to have at least one really good chance to do something to compensate for not having attacked, so a high percent chance to 'block' considerable damage (either all or most)

                          2) it needs to have some effect on subsequent attacks, but diminishing returns sound fair, either in chance or amount blocked, but the returns can't decrease too fast

                          3) not all weapons need to have the same parry dynamics. No idea how hard to code, but it might be nice if weapons could be 'tuned' more, with some higher damage lower parry, others lower damage higher parry (sort of a more extreme version of sword vs staff that isn't just sword vs staff)

                          4) it might be fun to have a low damage one hander that can parry and gets a next attack damage bonus each turn it isn't used (a rapier of sorts)

                          So my idea would be something like giving all weapons a 20% parry boost, but having each attack after the first 1) have a 5% drop in parry chance (stacking) and 2) let 1 more damage through (so the second parried attack would let 1 through, the 3d 2, etc) then give some weapons a +2 damage boost but have them let 1 more damage through (so 1 the 1st attack, 2 the 2nd, etc)

                          As to the rock-paper-scissors, if that is to be kept, 2-handers in general need a buff. Their defense is not always active (and at present not very good) and their damage output is inferior to dual wield (and not much better than 1-handers). Also, the fact that you only get 1 passive instead of 2 and don't get buffs that help each other from 2 items is a definite weakness that needs to be addressed.

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