Magic and Empire

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  • #31
    I know I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I'd still like to register my thoughts.

    Originally posted by Pharkonen View Post
    But I guess M&E has to become a near full Heartstone clone.
    This is what it seems like to me too - although I am willing to give the changes a chance, the game you are describing sounds a lot like Hearthstone (like A LOT a lot). Obviously, that is a successful game and I can understand you wanting to emulate aspects, but there is a point where you lose the identity of the game - which I always found was in the levelling of cards and champions and, in the later game, in evolution. That, at least, was my view of the game.

    Evolution was an absolutely brilliant reward for commitment to the game and a new development of an old card, which revitalised and encouraged gameplay. I understand, though, the balance issues and respect developer perogative, so I have to sadly accept that it will not exist in the next iteration of M&E.


    I have played Hearthstone but the reason why I kept coming back to BR and now M&E was because I felt there was always something I could do to progress through the game. Levelling up a champion or cards and seeing the health and damage increase was always exciting and satisfying for me - a tangible reward for my commitment to the game. Yes there's a grind aspect involved but a lot of MMOs do and I was happy to put up with it to get the reward of stronger cards and champions (although the fact that rarer cards were slower to level is very annoying, given they have more levels regardless). So, my thoughts:
    1. Keep champion leveling of health/damage. If its a balance issue between new and existing players, reduce the gap between the starting point and fully levelled, so it doesn't take long to reach fully levelled (not that it does now) but I don't see a reason to remove it completely. With a smaller gap especially, I think you can make it a low impact aspect that gives a large feeling of reward.
    2. It's clear card levelling is changing. That's fine. I don't think removing it completely is the way to go, though - it is too integral to the identity of M&E. 10, 5, even just 2 levels for the cards would keep part of the identity of M&E and allow players to gain a feeling of advancement outside of getting/making new cards, which will become more valuable as you go on in the game and it takes longer to craft/RNG a new card. Additionally, yes, its difficult to walk the fine line between overcomplexity and oversimplicity but removing levels crosses into oversimplicity in my book.

    Basically, I love the core basis of M&E and don't want to see it disappear completely.


    On crafting, I always found Hearthstone made it really difficult to get enough essence to craft something, so please don't make M&E like that.


    My two cents on the max evolved minion discussion: Devils advocate, and I don't have any max evolved legendaries so its perhaps not my place, but it would be a way to balance existing players with new players; however, the time, effort and likely money involved in getting minions to that point shouldn't be discarded lightly - if nothing else, perhaps a 'premium' card design, like the gold cards in Hearthstone? (I know I was against the game becoming too similar to Hearthstone, but I did like that aesthetic aspect, call me a hypocrite if you want.)

    In terms of existing players, it seems like you're developing quite a few new cards to add to the game. If you introduce enough new ones, it might work to let existing players keep their cards/champions/progress and just reset their silver/essence to zero - those with large caches probably find them meaningless and those without are still trying to get current cards. Compensation for this could come in the form of exclusive art/card backs or perhaps an exclusive 'legacy' card for existing players.
    Last edited by Marethyu; 07-29-2018, 02:14 AM. Reason: Added existing players paragraph.

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    • #32
      Just a few quotes from Talonxz in the discord channel since I figure the forum readers should know about this:

      There's definitely going to be a cap on what gets transferred. Obviously, we have a massive inflation with silver. The new economy will not have silver. Silver packs are going away. Right now, we are thinking 100 silver is equal to 1 new essence. But we will cap totally new essence converted by silver to 10,000. Which means anything over 1,000,000 silver will not transfer over. 10,000 essence will be enough to craft about 6 legendaries.

      &

      Converted essence will be capped at 10,000 as well. This is more complicated as it requires us to look at your account and determine how much essence you have locked into your leveled cards. But virtually all of you will have enough essence to get another 10,000 new essence. So that means most (maybe all?) of you will get 20,000 essence to craft cards. A lot of you may have most cards, but we will also be offering what we are currently calling Illuminated versions of the cards, which are essentially animated versions. Those will cost more to craft. It's a good thing to chase for the end game (playing a deck of 18 cards all Illuminated will take a while to acquire).

      He also mentions that they are looking into a way to turn off the moving on illuminated cards for those whose system it would be a problem for.


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      • #33
        Well just to say all these changes are the reason I've started playing this game again because the current model is just not for me. The only one who could like current model is someone that like to play card games against computer instead of a person wich certainly isn't my case. Some comment here seem to only have played Hearthstone besides this game because Legends and Shadowverse have similar model too and both also have huge player base, which means that model works.

        So I've played Hearthstone when it come out then stopped playing it for a while and when I come back was almost a different game, completely p2w. I played Shadowverse for a while and although I liked gameplay I didn't really liked most of the art, but was a fair game and true f2p. Legends to me is by far the best in all aspects (and I love Skyrim lol) and I think it's the one you guys should look at. It's the only game I've been playing for a while but now I've started playing this after reading this thread because I really like the overall art, the gameplay and the theme and as you say we keep everything I try to improve collection.

        So I really like all these changes and yes remove the energy thing because it's silly in a competitive game.

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        • #34
          Ya, not sure what the hangup about Hearthstone is. I rarely set foot in Hearthstone--don't care for the game's style. I do play Legends and Eternal sometimes. This body of games shares similarities, while each title strives to build something unique within that body. Game designers look at other games and take lessons away, as does any person working in any creative field. Heck, I look at Eternal sometimes and think, Man, someone there has played a lot of BloodRealm.

          We're working to make Magic & Empire its own game. Of course, it's going to share some qualities with other games like it, because that's what kind of game it is. I think we're going to have something much more contemporary, something much less grindy, and something just as fun as every other game I've played that Josh has put his design handprint on.

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          • #35
            You're right, just because games share smilarities doesn't mean they don't feel different, Hearthstone and Legends share similarities but they feel completely different. I don't dislike the current mana ramp, however it does have the problem you can just fill your deck with win conditions and not bother with other cards, with the change to mana ramp you can make so all cards feel useful as you can't just keep dropping bombs, you'll need the right cards and/or champions to do that.

            What will happen to "sorcery" cards? Will they have its own essence cost? Or will they get rarity too?

            Regarding aesthetic stuff card backs and titles like in Legends would be nice. For example in Legends I have the title "The Dragonborn" which is an epic title I got by achieving other minor titles. But there are also titles you only get by buying stuff with real money, the same with certain card backs

            And please make all cards be useful at least to some specific decks, in Legends it annoys me some cards have beautiful art but they're useless to play which it's a shame.
            Last edited by bloodmoon; 08-13-2018, 12:57 PM.

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            • #36
              Sorcery cards now have rarities. They have a cost to craft as well.

              We do plan for things like spell backs and alt art. I'd love a range of player avatars.

              I was trying out some of the new spells just yesterday, and one thing Talon has achieved, in my opinion so far, is making basic cards more useful. I found myself putting Peasant Recruits into a soldier spellbook.

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              • #37
                Yeah avatars would be nice, something we could replace the default champion pic with.

                I think there should be a bit more cards adding synergy like Circe. For example I think there isn't any cards with synergy for "fae".

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by bloodmoon View Post
                  Yeah avatars would be nice, something we could replace the default champion pic with.

                  I think there should be a bit more cards adding synergy like Circe. For example I think there isn't any cards with synergy for "fae".
                  Ya, types and clsses are definitely getting some love. Soldiers look pretty badass from what I've seen.

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                  • #39
                    If I remember correctly, you once tried this for Fae, and it... did not go well.
                    Last edited by krauseman; 08-15-2018, 10:26 PM. Reason: I forgot word.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by krauseman View Post
                      If I remember correctly, you once tried this for Fae, and it... did not go well.
                      They found that giving Pixie Queen fey leader turned out to be broken with willow wisp on Laura. That doesn't mean they can't do something to have synergy with fey.

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                      • #41
                        Well I was exactly thinking on making a Lora deck with fairies and Freya aha that is when I have enough gold for a new champion and the new game model comes and I can craft Freya...

                        Will you be adding the missing gods and goddesses from Egypt and Gaul?

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                        • #42
                          Not at the moment.

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                          • #43
                            So Griffon wrote converted essence from upgraded cards will be capped at 10000, but that applies for the raw essence too or will be converted separately? I assume it's all essence combined but just to be sure as I want to upgrade new cards I got especially Chimera I got from the new event and Pluto I got from skull pack. Btw I already got 2 Hercules, I wish I would have gotten other epics I find this 2% chance to get that card from the only 4% total to get an epic a bit annoying... On the bright side maybe I get another 2 and finally be able to complete the quest that gives a Legendary card (lvl 20 upgrade), I'm also 2 Pegasus away to be able to do that lol (I think I need 8 total, someone correct me if I'm mistaken).

                            Would be possible for you guys to add just friendly PVP when the changes come? Just so we can have some fun in PVP and would be great to test PVP and balance of the cards

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