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  • events - my thoughts

    I just finished the event and thought I'd give my thoughts...

    1) Is there any point in continuing to fight the event battles after you have achieved the 7x card?

    2) Interface, ugh. A tutorial would be helpful, but the interface is horrid. I've made some of these comments in other places, but I'll collect them here:

    A) The button to enter the event needs to be more easily identified, preferably by flashing in the beginning.

    B) Contrast has issues. Things overlayed onto pictures, such as the lock or a timer countdown aren't very distinct. Maybe give the next opponent a colored border and change the color of/relocate the boss countdown time.

    C) Get rid of the text percentage in the progress bars and replace with x of y notation. Making players do math to gauge their progress isn't good, and the bar itself gives the at a glance proportion of progress.

    D) Boss progress bar should go up, not down, like everything else in the game. Activating the boss and seeing that your progress is 100% is really weird, and made me wonder what I was supposed to do at first. X of Y notation would help here as well.

    E) In the rewards screen, change the 1x notation. I'm not sure what would be better, but when I was fighting the boss for the first time and I had to kill her more than once I was confused. Maybe denote them as round 1, 2 etc. instead.

    3) I HATE the timer. One of the things I like most about this game is that it is played at whatever pace you want. If you have five minutes to get a quick match in, fine If you want a 45 minute marathon, sure. But it is whatever fits your schedule. But the timer requires you to carve out a time period for the game, and fit it within the parameters of killing the other opponents. I'd much prefer a 3 strikes and out mechanic or something similar which would still let you play at your pace. While that is my STRONG preference, in the alternative, could the timer start with the first time you fight the boss, instead of beating the prior opponent? Messing up where you are (see above) and triggering the boss at a time you didn't want to really sucks, as does having to play games with match duration to go into the boss fight with full energy. Why do we have to play such games?

    4) Rewards.

    A) I haven't done the math, but I think the silver and essence are significantly less than regular farming. So completing the event is a sacrifice in those resources in order to get the cards. Considering that and the effort/difficulty involved, the card rewards seem light. Either the silver/essence needs boosting or the card rewards need to be better. One other tweak would be to replace the 2 common cards at the beginning with souls.

    B) Perception. The biggest problem is the 'event box'. To empty the event box takes 4200 gold (why its contents isn't a multiple of 6 is a mystery), which takes a player approximately 3 months to acquire (after needing about 18 months to unlock everything). This means that the event box is either an extreme end game feature or a pay feature. Combine that with the fact that its rewards are exponentially better than the event's rewards, and it creates the perception of being pay to win. When you combine that with a really good quest reward for emptying the box but not one for completing the event and the perception is exacerbated. So, what to do? First, rename the box to something other than 'event box'. Decouple it from the event so it isn't judged relative to the event. Second, add a quest reward for finishing the event. Put it on equal footing to the box in terms of 'importance'. Third, nerf the box. Knowing exactly what your getting is bonus enough, making it more efficient than buying gold/realm packs just makes it ludicrous (and possibly cannibalizes the buying of gold/realm packs). So 1 legendary, 3 epics and 16 rares, and let the bulk discount and quest reward give the efficiency.

  • #2
    1) Not really unless you haven't gotten far enough in the campaign. Then the rewards will be better than doing the campaign. Or for the fun of doing something different.

    2) A&B - As you said it's already been covered.
    C - The percentage is the compromise that the developers camp up with to fit in-between just watching the bar like we had to originally & the request for the counter you asked for. While I like the counter idea, I suspect that it will be a hard (or at least slow) sell.
    D - Works for me.
    E - This will be taken care of when we have the instructions put in. That being said I'm not sure a listing of how many times you have defeated the boss is that hard to get. That the meter now has to go down seem like the bigger (but not insurmountable) problem.

    3) You are not the first to say this & the response has always been that doing it with the timer is the whole point of events. Don't count on this changing.

    4) A- It depends on where you are in the campaign. Ra is comparable to the seventh set of minions & the boss fight themselves are worth more silver & essence. If you haven't gotten there yet then earlier minions are good for you as well. Yes you will have to get though the levels that are worth less, but at least you are getting good cards for it (Several 3, 4 & 5 star cards). Depending on the event the cards can be quite valuable. The event is worth more experience than the campaign so it's a great way to level. Also there is something else very important that events give you. A different & fun way to spend your energy. If you don't enjoy playing the game what is the point in getting good cards?
    B - Event boxes aren't meant for the beginners & this was not one of the bigger boxes. Plus you don't have to clear out the box to get some good cards. This is a business & they want people to put money into it. The game is remarkably fair to the free players, but it isn't reasonable to expect that people who pay don't have any advantage. Of course you can pay to get an advantage, what is special is that you can do it slower & still get all the good cards. Honestly I don't think that 3 months to get a set of some of the strongest cards in the game is unreasonable. Don't have the time/money to put in right now? Well they have it set up so you can get a bunch of good cards for free & some gold to get you closer to the box next time. Comparing several of the best cards in the game (which were in the box) to a decent 5* is always going to make the 5* look poor. But even then calling the difference exponential is an obvious exaggeration. Asking for an additional reward on top of the event designed to give you a shot at good cards (& some events give some of the top cards) feels like you are saying the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
    Nerfing the boxes that people save up for is a horrible idea. The boxes are the replacement for the realm packs. The difference in them is why we tell all the new players not to buy realm packs but to save for champs & boxes.

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    • #3
      2C) why? Implementing it should be trivial, so why a hard sell? What were the arguments against?

      3) Ah, gotcha. Developer's choice. Still hate it.

      4) The comparison between realm packs and the event box is what I mean when I say it cannibalizes it. What is the point of realm packs in comparison to the event box?

      I understand it is a business, but for the game to thrive it also needs volume, which means free players. And I have no problem with money getting you an advantage, as long as it isn't a massive advantage. 2 6 star, 5 5 star and 14 4 star I consider exponentially better than 1 5 star and 2 4 star (and depending on how you weight a 6 star it mathematically is too). All I can speak to is the current event, but looking at it from the perspective of a new player seeing it for the first time it feels like a massive advantage to the pay players. Now, a lot of that is how long it takes to unlock everything, so the gap between midgame and endgame players is temporally large. Remember, it is 18 months before you can start saving for a box. But a lot is also how it is presented. If you go back and reread, all I really asked for is the event box to be brought back to realm pack avgs (but you still get the bulk discount and the quest reward bonus) which in this case is turning 2 of the 5 stars to 4 stars, renaming it, and adding a quest reward to the event (which doesn't have to be a 6 star, just something). That really isn't much, but it would go a long way to changing how it looks and feels.

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      • #4
        Showing a percentage on the event boss progression bar is ridiculous when you don't know the absolute number of battles required for a tier. It should show x / y for clarity. I have been saying this for years. Also, the minion that triggers the boss battle should be highlighted in some manner and maybe even have a confirmation dialog to make sure the player actually wants to trigger the boss.

        The timer should be something like 3h 5m instead of exactly 3h because you never get to use the last 20 min. The boss timer expires just before you can initiate that last boss battle if you ended up in a situation with some losses and requiring one more win. This happens if you have lost 2 battles on boss 7 even if you set things up perfectly to start the boss with 100 energy and 3h timer. Theoretically you have enough time for 14 battles but in reality you can't actually do that 14th battle. Essentially it makes the timer seem like it is only 2h 40m.

        The realm packs have always been pointless. They are basically a trap for people that don't know any better. Why would anyone waste a precious resource like gold to obtain unknown random junk. I think the boxes are great because you know exactly what you are getting. The boxes are the only reason I have put money into supporting this game.

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        • #5
          Thanks, great feedback! I shared this with Josh and Joseph.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BAgate View Post
            2C) why? Implementing it should be trivial, so why a hard sell? What were the arguments against?
            The arguments against were simply that it adds tension & we want it this way. Not saying your idea is wrong, just that we just got a compromise so let's take that for the moment.


            Originally posted by BAgate View Post
            I understand it is a business, but for the game to thrive it also needs volume, which means free players. And I have no problem with money getting you an advantage, as long as it isn't a massive advantage. 2 6 star, 5 5 star and 14 4 star I consider exponentially better than 1 5 star and 2 4 star (and depending on how you weight a 6 star it mathematically is too). All I can speak to is the current event, but looking at it from the perspective of a new player seeing it for the first time it feels like a massive advantage to the pay players. Now, a lot of that is how long it takes to unlock everything, so the gap between midgame and endgame players is temporally large. Remember, it is 18 months before you can start saving for a box. But a lot is also how it is presented. If you go back and reread, all I really asked for is the event box to be brought back to realm pack avgs (but you still get the bulk discount and the quest reward bonus) which in this case is turning 2 of the 5 stars to 4 stars, renaming it, and adding a quest reward to the event (which doesn't have to be a 6 star, just something). That really isn't much, but it would go a long way to changing how it looks and feels.
            Please take a look at what it would cost to buy enough gold to be able to buy out the box. Go on.

            If a person drops $50 all at once for an advantage it should be a big one. What is more likely to happen is the person has been saving for a while & see's a box they can't pass on so they buy a bit more gold so they can do it now. This is a good thing for the game. You either have to dump an obscene money into the game to try for every box or you have to have some patience & save. While it might be ideal to get the whole box at once, from experience I can tell you most players will just buy part of the box to try to get the cards they want & save up for the whole box later. The thing is that even a year later the cards those cards will still be good to get. That's because the game is fairly balanced & EVERY card in an event box is something you can get for free. (Though the odds of getting the Legendary/6* is very low.) Boxes are a nice shortcut, but the developers also make sure that gold is available enough that even free players can get enough to do it.

            You are dealing every day with a bunch of decks that are filled with cards that come from boxes (including f2p decks) & you still manage to advance in the arena so that for at least most of the week you are in the top 10 & are still the top 25. There are a lot more than 25 players in the game. This shows that the cards from boxes don't give an overwhelming advantage. (Yes I do get how frustrating it is to see all these more powerful decks because I was there also.) Strategy is important & people are not getting "I win" cards. They are cutting down on the grind to get the cards. I repeat these are not cards needed to play competitively nor are they cards that will be useless in a month because the new cards are out (both of which I have seen in bad CCGs).

            Also I don't know where you get that you have to wait 18 months to start saving for a box. While it is a good idea to get several gold champs before you start doing so, you don't have to. I know many older players who never did (or at least didn't before the big wait) get all champs. I get how frustrating it is to have a bunch of good stuff waived in front of you when you can't get it. They need to put something in to tantalize players to spend money if they are going to make any money. You are going to spend a lot more time in end game than mid-game, it just takes patience which is a real necessity for this game. What are the odds of getting long term players if you master the highest levels of the game in just 2 months?

            One reason I might be a bit testie about this is that some of us had spend months saving & waiting for the box we wanted only to have that feature pulled while the game was revamped & have to really wait for it to get this close to having the game fully back up/box come up again. Also I have never seen a CCG that was nearly as F2P friendly, (& I have tried a lot), so you do seem a bit impatient.

            The real problem I have though is with the idea the the boxes are just too good. I am going to quote Firagon so you know it's not just my opinion:
            Originally posted by Firagon View Post
            The realm packs have always been pointless. They are basically a trap for people that don't know any better. Why would anyone waste a precious resource like gold to obtain unknown random junk. I think the boxes are great because you know exactly what you are getting. The boxes are the only reason I have put money into supporting this game.
            Degrading the event boxes down to be like the packs would be an absolutely horrible idea. I started playing before events or boxes showed up & let me say we were all absolutely excited to finally see a way to get cards that didn't have all the problems with realm packs. The boxes were the answer to the problem. Realm packs need a big revamp which will probably have to feature the ability to get new sorcery spells. Considering that you were just complaining about how hard it is to get good cards, asking for us to loose one of the best ways we have to get them seems counterproductive.

            Last edited by Griffon; 03-27-2018, 10:18 PM. Reason: Accidentally hit enter while fixing mistakes.

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            • #7
              I still don't get why 'degrading' the boxes to be like packs is an 'absolutely horrible idea'. The difference, in this case, is literally 2 5 stars swapped for 4 stars. Why is that so horrible? Isn't knowing exactly what you are getting, getting the bulk discount (4200 instead of 5000 gold), and getting the quest reward of a 6 star enough?

              I say 18 months before you can save because that is how long it takes to unlock everything. I know you don't have to do so and can save up for boxes earlier, but that is one way to look at it, and a useful shorthand. The real metric is 3 months of saving.

              I'm not arguing for mastering the highest levels in 2 months. Again, reread what I asked for. A slight nerf to the boxes so it isn't so much good stuff waved in your face. A renaming of event boxes to something else so it isn't psychologically linked and compared to the event. And a quest reward of some kind for finishing the event so that, again psychologically, it is put on the same level of importance with finishing the box. None of that would break the game balance or make you a god in 2 months.

              As for my having some success without those cards, that is simply due to playing far more than I should. I still hit players that I have zero chance against and have to resign, so while 1 card isn't an 'I win' card, 5 or 6 of them are. And that isn't a bad thing. Play long enough and you deserve to be a god. Or spend and get a shortcut. I'm just arguing that the shortcut should be a little less and that the presentation of that shortcut should be changed so it doesn't come off as such a naked money grab.

              And, of course, reducing the cost of champions so the saving for boxes could begin earlier would also help...

              All that being said, I definitely agree that this is a good game and far better than most of its kind.

              Comment


              • #8
                fwiw historically events have done well to sell goods, but the current market is such that we must revisit pricing and how goods are offered. And we have to do so in accommodation of ftp players. ftp players make up the vast majority, and it's hard to overstate vast in this context. Broadly speaking, we do need to give all players more currency drops, which is why we'll have daily quests. But it also means we have to look at how champions are sold, how much they cost, how much event boxes cost, what are in gold packs and realm packs, if people buy silver at all: the whole thing. And we have to look at potions and the energy system. All that stuff is knotted up together.

                And frankly, everything is on the table right now, so we are open to all ideas and don't want to cling to what has been done in the past. The thing about BloodRealm is this: it didn't make it. Some things it did quite well, some things it did not. We believed enough in the core game play, the strong art appeal, and its ability to attract players that we have invested significantly in rebranding and rebuilding it.

                The marketplace, meaning all the competition that exists, has changed quite a bit. Several serious competitors already have large fan bases and market shares, and those games really can drive player expectations for what other games charge. Just saying, "that's how it was always done and that's why it was done that way" could be setting us up for another really fun game that draws a good audience but doesn't cross that threshold of success to make it thrive and grow.

                Dialogues like this are good because those of involved with the game's development and production are also old-timers. Josh designed it. I was a harcore v1 and v2 player, then a v2 and now v3 employee. Joseph was a hardcore v2 player and then v2 and v3 employee. The current developers have been on the project for well over a year. We all have old eyes, so don't be hard on new players with new eyes. We can't let the game get stale, and all players, new and old, have perspectives that we may not have considered. That's really valuable, and one thing I've always loved about this game is the active community. (This sounds kind of silly, but I am really attached to all these old players, so many that are gone now, and it's part of what made me want to help this game in its 3rd version, and it's awesome seeing new players get enthused about the game).

                Anyhow, I'm rambling at this point, but let's keep an open mind to new perspectives. Throw enough mud at a wall, and something is sure to stick, right?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Griffon View Post

                  If a person drops $50 all at once for an advantage it should be a big one. What is more likely to happen is the person has been saving for a while & see's a box they can't pass on so they buy a bit more gold so they can do it now. This is a good thing for the game. You either have to dump an obscene money into the game to try for every box or you have to have some patience & save. While it might be ideal to get the whole box at once, from experience I can tell you most players will just buy part of the box to try to get the cards they want & save up for the whole box later.
                  As a player who used to buy 1-3 packs from every other Event Box or so, I can say I wish I'd just bought the whole thing(s) in one go. The reward for the whole box is far to good to pass up. There used to be a place that had a list of each Event Box, including contents, rewards, cost, cost per card, and the schedule. Where was that?
                  Save up. Make a plan. Buy what you really want.

                  Additionally, before Spell Boxes were even a glimmer in some developer's eye, (gods bless that man) I was obsessed with getting two copies of Conditioning. I dumped enough gold into the only way to get them - realm packs. I don't know if it's my own cursed luck, or a problem with RNG, but I ended up buying enough packs that I had 8 or 9 of each of Daily Devotion AND Ethereal Chains before I got a Conditioning.
                  Realm packs and their RNG are the devil. Spend gold on things that WILL get you the things you want.

                  Also gonna bring up that one guy that played this game like it was his full time job. Bought out every event box, usually twice. Beat every event, usually twice. Had all the best cards, all the time.
                  He got bored and left.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BAgate View Post
                    I still don't get why 'degrading' the boxes to be like packs is an 'absolutely horrible idea'. The difference, in this case, is literally 2 5 stars swapped for 4 stars. Why is that so horrible? Isn't knowing exactly what you are getting, getting the bulk discount (4200 instead of 5000 gold), and getting the quest reward of a 6 star enough?
                    The reason is because even before boxes came out realm packs were considered a bad idea & a waste of gold (mostly). Now that we have something good we don't want to go back to the old way. A much better solution is to make realm packs better, which involves much better cards & access to sorcery spells with a bit less randomness. (Maybe pick 2 sorcery spells form a random distribution of 4 spells from the realm & similar for the minions?) Breaking them into smaller sets of cards, without changing the proportions of cards, might also make them new player friendly. Honestly I am much more in favor of them giving us more ways to earn gold. (Besides getting guilds back.) I am really glad to see that on the docket.

                    Originally posted by BAgate View Post
                    I say 18 months before you can save because that is how long it takes to unlock everything. I know you don't have to do so and can save up for boxes earlier, but that is one way to look at it, and a useful shorthand. The real metric is 3 months of saving.
                    The problem is that you are obviously taking the most extreme example to exaggerate your point. You even point out in your own rebuttal that the real metric is 3 months! Even then it would be optional.

                    Originally posted by BAgate View Post
                    I'm not arguing for mastering the highest levels in 2 months. Again, reread what I asked for. A slight nerf to the boxes so it isn't so much good stuff waved in your face. A renaming of event boxes to something else so it isn't psychologically linked and compared to the event. And a quest reward of some kind for finishing the event so that, again psychologically, it is put on the same level of importance with finishing the box. None of that would break the game balance or make you a god in 2 months.
                    It's not a minor nerf, its a serious back-step. Which is funny since you have been a proponent for people getting more & better cards. (Something I think should be done.) I never said anything about renaming the events. I have no problem with that. The only time I said something about the name of boxes (& that wasn't in this thread) was to say we might want to rename spell boxes to sorcery boxes because of the new nomenclature. The quest reward for an event is the special advertised card, in this case Siren. Calling that out as a quest would be nice (maybe with some essence of the right realm to help level it).

                    @ Krauseman - You aren't the only one who just bought some cards instead of the whole set. It might have been better in the long run to get the whole box, but the cards I got from just buying some made a big difference in my decks.


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                    • #11
                      I don't have experience with it, so if you think the realm/gold packs need a boost I will yield to your wisdom. But I still think they need to be equaled.

                      I'm not using extreme examples, merely different perspectives. The metric is 3 months of saving to get the gold to buy a box out, and it is also true that it is 18+ months to get the gold to unlock everything. Which you do first is, of course, optional. But the time frames are real. So you are either unlocking champions and playing with 2nd tier cards or getting good cards and playing with extremely limited champions, but to do both to any degree takes a time frame of about 2 years. I think that is too long, you obviously disagree.

                      As for the quest reward being the Siren, while that is true in an abstract sense, it isn't true in a literal one, since it doesn't appear in the quest page. In the same abstract sense the reward for buying the entire box is all of the cards it contains, so why get an extra card (I know, it is to encourage spending)? By adding an actual quest reward to the quest page, not only do you make the event FEEL equal to the box by both having a quest reward when you complete them, but you also even out the disparity in rewards so it FEELS like playing events will get you to the same place as spending money, just slower.

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                      • #12
                        The progress bar should show the number of battles completed, like 17/18, rather than a percentage. That would allow players to organize their time through knowing the exact number of battles ahead of them.

                        The boss timer should start with the first boss battle rather than the end of the last minion battle so you don't have to worry about accidentally triggering the boss.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Firagon View Post
                          The progress bar should show the number of battles completed, like 17/18, rather than a percentage. That would allow players to organize their time through knowing the exact number of battles ahead of them.

                          The boss timer should start with the first boss battle rather than the end of the last minion battle so you don't have to worry about accidentally triggering the boss.
                          I agree. I think we have the second recommendation recorded, but I'll check. Maybe the first as well. I'll check where I've stored that info and add whatever isn't there.

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