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Pardon the rant...

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  • Pardon the rant...

    But I just need to get this off my chest. Why do all the various components of Making Fun games always misallocate resources so badly? Seriously, every one of their games is so focused on the long term and where they're going that they ignore the short term and the experience for players who are currently playing.

    For example, in M&E, the number one issue for newbies (and to a lesser extent for everyone) is arena matching. This is an issue that almost caused me to abandon the game when I started, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that, yet it has been on the to-do list for months. Yet there has been time for graphical improvements?

    And when it comes to mid-game, the number one issue is lack of progress. It takes me a week to upgrade a couple cards one level, and I haven't changed the composition of any of my decks in over a month (with the exception of once with the last event) because new cards are so few and far between. So I'm plying the exact same opponents with the exact same deck over and over and over. Grinding is one thing, but this is getting really boring. And why? Because there is no gold. Gold is required to get new champions, get sorceries, and have more than a minuscule chance at epic/legendary cards. In other words, it is required to make progress. And yet, once you finish the campaign, the only source (outside of spending money) is arena tournaments. Which provide so little that getting new things has a time horizon measured in MONTHS. And what do the developers do? They eliminate the 50 gold every 5 days, REDUCING the amount available. WHY? We need more, not less. I know they are rethinking the economy, but that is a long term project and there is a short term. How about a temporary patch? Or just considering the player experience in the interim?

    I have full confidence in the long term development of M&E. But is it too much to ask that there be some consideration of short term issues as well? Of maybe prioritizing long term goals in order of short term impact? Or just using temporary fixes while long term changes are made?

  • #2
    Well we should be getting events back on a regular schedule soon. Which means that we will have access to some decent cards & more gold also.

    But yeah the long term goals really are making the short term stuff go over poorly & it's taking a lot longer than expected to get back to the short term goals.


    • #3
      I agree with whatever BAgate said. When I learned they removed the 50gold/5 days bonus last week, I shrugged it off. If this had happened 2 months ago, I would have been livid, but since mid-april, I re-started playing Hearthstone, so this obviously bad piece of planning doesn't bother me so much (removing one key feature and not replacing it immediately with something that is, at worst, on par with the previous system, is sheer stupidity).

      Despite that, I wish this game would have been handled better. It has the potential to be a great F2P game, but the devs are obviously prioritizing aesthetics over gameplay and mechanics, something I have brought up before. Perhaps they are trying to sell it to a bigger company? Telling us that great new features are in the works and will be implemented in the next cycle or the next next cycle doesn't mean anything. How many events have we had since BR ended? 3, including Trial of Atlantis, which was so badly managed, I don't really want to think about it anymore. Where are guilds (care to guess the answer?)? Where is the PVP system (care to guess the answer?)? Without the phone app, I could still pull 700 gold/month on BR, so a new champ every 6 weeks. Now, with the app, I get 400 gold/month. I am yet to empty an event box, and haven't bought a new champ since the start of the year. Meanwhile, the game interface now has the colour scheme of a My Little Pony cartoon. I brought up the importance of solidifying gameplay and engine over aesthetics before, but apparently none of the devs took notice. So here I am, giving you guys notice.

      At the rate things are going, I don't see myself playing M+E beyond 2018. I have my own targets as far as skulls and coins are concerned, and once I hit those around X-mas of this year, I think I'll be done.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Oblivion View Post
        the devs are obviously prioritizing aesthetics over gameplay and mechanics
        I totally agree ; some nasty bugs (like Doom Knight Sapping even when evade or stun, or reflect not working when minion is killed) have been here for sooo long... And now retreat send card back to top of spellbook instead of hand... We don't need so many vfx, make the game work.

        Anyway, I'm still playing and won't stop cos' I forbid myself to try another MMO game
        Last edited by fredo46; 06-02-2018, 03:09 PM.
        Make Jade Knight green !


        • #5
          And to "defend" making Fun : BAgate, did you play when this game was called Bloodrealm ? There used to be guilds, events every 2 weeks, spell boxes inbetween, and ranked PVP ; I'd say that the game is now in a sort of sleepy state, preparing a "big launch" (at least I read it somewhere) for... who knows when
          But I agree that removing 5-day login reward WITHOUT daily quests directly after is kind of cruel
          Make Jade Knight green !


          • #6
            The game really is on pause right now. I just hope it doesn't die in it's sleep.


            • #7
              I didn't play when it was bloodrealm (relative newbie, just a couple months). And I understand it is in a beta-ish state. But if you have it open to the public, who are essentially acting as your QA and testers, you should devote some effort to making what they are playing a good experience. So as I said, if the arena matching has to be fixed at some point, why not fix it sooner than later? As opposed to working on something bigger which is more long term and doesn't affect current players? Or not eliminating the 50 gold without having something, even if it is only temporary, to replace it.

              Old timers have described what it was, and that sounds cool, but that isn't where we are now. I just think the devs need to pay a little bit of attention to the now and not just the future.


              • #8
                Hey howdy. I've been pulled away from things a bit for personal reasons, so pardon the late response.

                Arena matching is in the next sprint. Our intent is to make some quality of life improvements and leave those intact until the arena redesign is done. Unlike, say, the store, which was essentially a UI redesign, arena will be both UX and UI. In other words, it will be reimagined.

                I feel you on the battle bugs. Originally, I had scheduled several sap bugs for this sprint, but they were moved out. But you do have these bug fixes in the next release:
                [1242] - Siren doesn't Kill
                [2407] - Trusted Vizier did not stun its own champion when corrupted
                [3487] - Mistress of Whispers missing her Stealth icon
                [3346,3526] - Angel of Vitality is buffing enemy champion, not working for enemy minions
                [3545] - Sakara's Serpent Command blood ability isn't applying frenzy to minions.
                [3556] - Lora's first blood power does not summon a Griffon.
                [3560] - Dispel sending card back to Deck rather than Hand
                [3627] - Some abilities are not showing up in description of the target, such as Odin + Anchor adjacent minions, Odin (Champion) blood ability Poised Array, Baldur (Champion) blood ability Heart of Valhalla.
                [3628] - Freya's falcons can be corrupted
                [3525] - Devoted Maiden doing double damage to minions that once had shadow as extra realm
                [3584] - Morlich's Unholy Sacrifice does not give a power boost

                Some of those are fixes for a bug that was introduced in the last release.

                Gameplay is getting a big overhaul, Oblivion . Phase 1 of the minion redesign is pretty much done and Joseph is beginning the process of configuring minions to test on his experimental server. This sounds like pandering to my boss from someone who has a vested interest in being positive, but I have watched Josh (talonxz) design games for a long time now. I played CLASH: Rise of Heroes, then I played BloodRealm v1. I was a deeply engaged player in both of those, like many of you here, and provided a lot of feedback along the way. Then, of course, I was a heavy BloodRealm v2 player. I've watched Josh's design process and decisions and I have learned to trust those. It's the strength of his ability to design fun games that contributed to my decision to work here full time (okay, it was kind of a no-brainer when given the opportunity because what gamer doesn't want to work for a game company? But anyway...). So all that to say, I have learned to trust his decisions, and having seen his first draft of redesigns, I am excited about what's happening. The core game is going to be familiar but feel very new. To do this, current engine bugs must be fixed and new abilities introduced, so that's not being ignored. It's just a matter of man power and priorities.

                Additionally, arena, pvp, and guilds will get redesigned. Josh is one of these people who churns through ideas, seeks feedback, dwells on things, keeps the big picture in mind, holds to a coherent vision of game play, and eventually lands somewhere pretty cool. He has some fun stuff planned, and we're all working hard to make these things happen. But none of that happens until the spell redesign is done. We can introduce guilds after launch, but we can't redesign spells after launch.

                PVP is in active development. The engineers have started on that. It's a big task, so design is working on the spell redesign, configuration, and then testing concurrently. Those are the two big, long-term efforts actively underway that will span sprints.

                About aesthetics, the honest answer is that the first person to do the UI wasn't really a UI artist. He does flat out gorgeous art and I was blown away by his demi-god, but he's not a UI specialist. We couldn't ship that UI and expect to compete with some of the heavy hitters out there. So parts of the UI are being done. The store is complete (though we will start offering bundled goods and the like). Collections is next, but Josh has to make some core decisions that affect the Collections UI. You forum and Discord regulars should know that all your feedback is shared. Josh reads Discord, and I read all the posts here and share to the design team. We listen and incorporate. In fact, some of BAgate's comments about doing upgrade and evolve in one place resulted in a mockup. It's hard to overestimate how valuable the feedback and bug reporting has been. To finish about aesthetics, Cynthia, whose work you've seen with the new battlefield playmats, different animations, store redesign (and a beautiful demi-god, not the one mentioned above), is going to take a swing at the home screen next. We feel much more confident about our new UI than the old one, even though some awkward relics span both the old and new UI, like the buttons which tend to bug me, but whatever....

                Speaking broadly, prioritization is exceedingly difficult. Members of the team have different priorities (I would love a sprint just for engine fixes), players voice their priorities, the developers writing the code have things they think should be worked on next, but ultimately, John, the CEO; Josh, VP of Design; and Jeff, VP of Engineering, make those calls the best they can. They have had more than one big meeting about this and have a road map in place for 2018 that will have us in a good place in the coming months. Additionally, there's a lot of back end work happening with data structuring, the build and release workflow, and QA improvements that should expedite things, too.

                So that's all a bit random, but hopefully gives some insight. Feel free to ask away. I understand people's frustration. Believe me, I've been on this project for a long time now, and man, do I want to see it shipped. I want to see it launch, I want lots of players, I want a big thriving community like we had with BloodRealm, but bigger, and I want people to have fun and I want the game to be a success for the company. Because then we can make more cool features and more cool games.

                Anyhow, thanks all. Happy gaming.


                • #9
                  Well, one thing we can never complain about is the communication. Thanks for that.


                  • #10
                    I'm definitely getting... disillusioned. I think it was a year that MF was working on 'the new version' back when we were on Kongregate. It's coming on a year ago that the Kong version was abandoned. That's two years of development and we aren't even back to the same functionality as before. PvP. Guilds. regular events. It's distressing to hear that after all this time, the team is still trying to pin down how much grind they want in the game. I really feel like this should have been looked at beforehand.

                    I know I'm being less than helpful with this, but damn it feel like it needs to be said -


                    • #11
                      I have faith that good stuff is coming. Patience I have. As for taking away the 50 gold log-in bonus, I was one of those who was NOT receiving it. Thinking that the bonus could not have been added for those not getting it without removing the original (bugged) bonus program first. Imagine how I was feeling knowing other players were getting a gold bonus and I wasn't. Hopefully they can put it back into the game so ALL can get it.


                      • #12
                        If not everyone was getting it it needed to be changed. But eliminating it without replacing it is worse than it was. Without gold you can't get sorceries, and without them minions with channel abilities are worthless. And without gold you can't get new champions. So without gold you can't get access to half the game, and that doesn't even count the fact that gold is the prime way to get epic/legendary minions. So cutting gold, even if only a subset of players was getting it, was a dumb idea.


                        • #13
                          I'm not sure that taking it away when lots of people couldn't get it is worse than leaving it in place. If you were one of the people who wasn't getting it then it would really stink. Idealy there should have been something ready to replace it if not immediately then soon after. The time for soon has passed. I know they want to come up with the best possible version of the game, but it's taking too long. They need to take some interim measures even if they are going to be temporary.


                          • #14
                            Just need to say this because I've seen it multiple times. Several changes have been made and the developers justify them by saying all successful games in the genre do it, or that it is industry standard. That is a terrible reason to do anything. Do what is best, not what is common.

                            For instance, clicking to flip cards is a terrible idea. So why do it? Because other games do? Do you think they are successful because of that? If you are building a new game, do it right. Base decisions on what makes for the best experience for the players, not what other developers have done before.


                            • #15
                              We’re not doing something because it’s common. It’s because game designers largely agree on some best practices for a genre.