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    QoL Mobile interface improvements and a few other thoughts

    Grueling event. Anyway these past 9 days really put into sharp relief some of the QoL issues mobile users face. My right middle fingertip literally feels like it's on fire. Towards the end, it actually HURTS to play the game.

    The first thing that attracted me to this game was the gesture based game interface. I thought it was very intuitive and a vast improvement over the more typical joypad implementations. Now that I have swiped/gestured millions of times in the past week, I'm starting to feel differently. Don't get me wrong, the interface setup is still natural and a step above. But swiping the same symbol over and over and over until the finger is about the fall off can quickly salt away any fun factor. To this end, I have three QoL Mobile interface suggestions which coincidentally could close some of the mobile/pc gap that currently exists as well.

    1) Suggestion: Toggleable skill autocast
    PC's skill spamming advantage is well known. That stems from the very low cost of triggering a skill whereas mobile user needs to draw symbol, be blinded to the area of action etc, much higher cost for skill triggering. I know a short skill queue and global skill cooldown is coming to shrink this gap. However those two solutions don't address the other issue that I now feel represents a greater burden on mobile users -- finger fatigue. ANB style event necessarily means long hours of time investment, the accumulative damage of drawing the same symbols over and over show itself towards the end. To fundamentally address this issue, some kind of skill autocast system is the necessary next step. The idea is reduce the number of symbols one has to draw over a prolong period of gaming session.

    2) Suggestion: Within setting, a checkbox for Toggleable Skill Autocast in Combat.
    How it functions: While in combat (this status is already in the game as certain skills can't be triggered while out of combat), if one draws the skill symbol before the cooldown is finished, then the skill toggles to autocast mode. This is indicated by a circulating border around the skill symbol on the left. The skill will autocast whenever CD is finished using some form of smart targetting if a target is required. This autocast status can be turned off even while in combat by drawing the skill symbol again before CD is finished. Once out of combat, all autocast status gets set to off. To enable a skill for autocast quickly, just draw the symbol quickly twice in a row.
    I think this is a much more intuitive solution and a significant QoL improvement for mobile users while granting them no advantage compared to a PC user.

    Suggestion: Auto Quaffing of potion and apple
    Within setting, have slider bar control to set the % of hp that will auto quaff potion or eat an apple. For example I want the apple automatically consumed when hp falls to 50% or lower. Or auto quaff potion when HP falls below 25%. This doesn't make the player immortal as both apple and potion have cooldowns. So the system could trigger auto consumption, but if the CD isn't finished, the command will simply be ignored. Again a much needed QoL improvement as we all have stories about misclicked or pressed potion attempts that ended a promising trial run. This suggestion is actual an extension to a major game mechanic idea below. Read on to see how this will interact with that idea.

    3) Suggestion: Improved normal attack switching
    To optimize damage, mage and warrior has to alternate between normal attacks. However switching between the two during stressful combat situation is less than ideal. I know some changes are coming, but I want to re-bring up the old idea of assigning normal attack pattern instead of normal attack skills. Basically normal attack one and two actually describes two attack patterns. In the simplest form, an attack pattern is the % chance of using one of two pre-assigned normal attacks. For example, pattern one could be 30% Frenzy and 70% Rendering Slash. This pattern will be good for mobbing phase where you want Frenzy to keep the attack speed buff high and RS for the bleed stacks. Pattern two could be 70% Frenzy, 30% RS, more of a bossing attack pattern where you are more concerned about the single target damage and the occasional SW. This method is purposefully imprecise as to allow the RNG to produce less than true optimal results. This is a fair trade off for the ease of use. As a mobile user, I would gladly accept 90% efficiency while gaining significant ease of use.

    All three suggestions are meant to reduce the number of mobile user inputs per time period in order to still produce acceptable results; therefore, combined it will provide a large increase in QoL for mobile users. None of the suggestion will introduce undue hardships to PC users while effectively narrowing the current yawning gap between the performances of these two platforms.

    Game Mechanic Thought -- LoH/HP Pool

    After grinding a new character/warrior in this event, one thing became clear to me was the imbalance between recovery and HP pool. Nothing frustrates more than an errant arrow that ends a promising trial run. Before my time, recovery was done via life steal%. Of course as player damage reached millions, even a small % resulted in immortal characters. So the change was made from life steal% to LoH. However it is currently an odd state of affairs. Two range classes (BH and Mage) actually have game mechanics in place that drastically amplify the power of LoH. BH with RF and Mage with Singularity/Shield Bubble both create effective recovery that is an order of magnitude greater than the one close range combat class we have, warrior. So the one class that absolutely NEEDS recovery have the weakest LoH mechanic while the other two shine in this department (sheet recovery drastically understate the effective recovery # for BH and Mage). Hence if you check the Mage and BH LBs, you won't find any investing any gear stat to LoH as the CP investment being wholly sufficient. This contributes to the warrior's lack of competitiveness with the other two classes. However this is merely the symptom of the disease. Due to the BH and Mage recovery mechanics (since we all fight the same mobs), the mob damage has to scale with the effective recovery that's possible, read BH and Mage. As such, in order to provide a challenge, the mob damage was scaled to such level that HP pools have been left in the dust. Literally BH and especially Mage can refill their HP pool multiple times in a second (potentially while that's far from possible for a warrior). This creates a situation where mob damage is way too high for the HP pool to provide anything other than Not to be 1HKO. This makes for a challenge but also a lot of unnecessary frustration. It becomes too hard to tune the encounter to be just right. A little less and the recovery over comes the incoming dmg as to make the encounter a cakewalk. Just a bit more than the recovery can see your character get swamped in seconds. This doesn't make for a good gaming experience as the margin for error becomes too small. All the more frustrating for mobile users where reactions and inputs are all at a premium (cost of doing something is far higher than a PC user).

    Previously I thought about attacking this issue by separating LoH and attack speed as the high # of attacks per second contributed to this scenario. But further thoughts on this matter made me realize that the real issues are the mechanics BH and Mage can deploy that amplifies the LoH effects far beyond what was probably originally intended.

    Also Life Regeneration is a joke compared to what LoH can do. So instead I want to propose the below system to completely revamp the recovery mechanic in this game.

    Life Regeneration becomes a rating. Max CP investment will yield 5% HP pool recovery per second. Gear stat investments can potentially bring this % to 15% in total. This makes HP pool a factor in recovery. More stat interaction is usually a good thing.

    LoH becomes Accelerated Metabolism, also a rating. Max CP investment will yield a multiplier of 3 while gear stat investments can potentially bring this multiplier to 6. This multiplier essentially increases the Life Regeneration while in combat. Sort of like a stimpack while fighting.

    Additionally like AR, AM rating will also impact the potion and apple cooldown. Meaning high AM cuts down the potion/apple CD, allowing one to use them more frequently. Combined with the auto quaffing above, the recovery mechanics are now made up of two elements, the body regeneration and healing items. With potion/apple stack going to 100 and faster usage of those during the game, this creates an effective gold sink as well.

    Finally spells like SW that has a healing component, each casting also removes a set number of seconds from the potion/apple CD, much like alacrity for skill CD. I will leave the fine tuning to the developers. But this system creates a more controllable recovery mechanic that doesn't overwhelm other aspects of the game. With recovery controlled, mob damage can now be scaled down appropriately so the HP pool can actually absorb a few hits, not just a 1HKO buffer. The gaming experience will also improve as the margin for error increases so players can react more to the changing combat situation instead of another perfect run ending prematurely due to a stray arrow.

    Warrior Skill Thoughts:
    RS, Cleave, Frenzy all do damage plus some secondary effect.
    RS: Bleed, Cleave: Damage debuff, slow, Frenzy: MS and AS buff plus a small heal

    First I don't get the slow debuff on Cleave. It helps none and probably a negative for what players are trying to do. How about removing that slow debuff entirely and just up the damage debuff to 20%.

    Next both devastate and WW are woefully underused. They have been buffed repeatedly and still find few takers near the top of the LB. How about granting those skills the secondary effects of the normal attack that the player is using when casting them? For example if a player is doing RS while casting Devaste, then each Devastate hits will also add that bleed stack to the target. Same thing with WW, affecting each target in the path. This creates a more interesting skill combo and gives players more things to play with.

    That's all for now. Looking forward to the balancing patch. Plus I do hope for one cheater above me in the event... LOL

    Last edited by Arionthe; 07-23-2018, 07:12 AM. Reason: Continuing the initial post
    GAQO KITO REZO 1934

    #2
    I think they already have planned on fixing normal attack switching, but still...

    +111111777890864324789044
    ANB#3 Mage rank #91 TL95
    Exclusively mobile player

    Comment


      #3
      Great post! Some good ideas.

      Only thing is the auto apple.. great idea but I can see the dev putting that in as part of the skill of the game, part of what makes it fun or challenging in a small way. Watching your health being part of your rotation is just part of it.
      I think maybe making them easier to access will help enough. Putting them towards the top of the screen or sides, or unlock and drag to your location type, similar to game add-ons.
      Last edited by Skyla; 07-23-2018, 09:58 AM.
      QUJI GUFE GOKO 2635
      Hacker, not to be confused with cheater or cracker

      Comment


        #4
        -1 on auto cast apples/potions
        ANB #1- Mage Rank 17... T107 in 9:47
        ANB #2- Mage Rank 1..... T116 in 9:54

        Live LB- Mage Rank 3..... T122 in 9:05.
        Live LB- XP Mage ........... T112 in 7:55/ T100 in 3:25.

        Click here to see my gameplay videos.

        Comment


          #5
          Feel free to read the initial post again. Finally got around finishing the post.
          GAQO KITO REZO 1934

          Comment


            #6
            Some of the suggestions sound actually interesting and good, but autocasting skills and potions is just plain wrong for any class, that... for any class. You probably thought of skills like Battle Rage and Shield Block, but most skills actually need at least either aim or timing. The when would be on cooldown, but how would this autocast system determine where to cast Singularity and Blizzard for a Mage? Last place I tapped? Highest mob density(works so great with Frost Beam...)? What about priority targets? And where the **** would teleport end up?!
            MULU FIGU DUFE 7374

            Comment


              #7
              Nothing is going to bridge the gap between PC and mobile.

              Just make separate Leaderboards. If system detects any connection via PC, even if you go back and forth from PC to mobile, then you are on the PC leaderboard. This applies to events only.


              It sounds drastic but is an easy fix, unless system cannot differentiate between emulators and mobile. If so......it is what it is.
              Last edited by Bounty; 07-23-2018, 09:47 PM.
              BH - Stalker - TL 138 (PC)

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Skyla View Post
                Great post! Some good ideas.

                Only thing is the auto apple.. great idea but I can see the dev putting that in as part of the skill of the game, part of what makes it fun or challenging in a small way. Watching your health being part of your rotation is just part of it.
                I think maybe making them easier to access will help enough. Putting them towards the top of the screen or sides, or unlock and drag to your location type, similar to game add-ons.
                See my expanded discussion about Recovery later in the edited initial post. You will see why auto quaff makes sense in that setup.
                GAQO KITO REZO 1934

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by narf View Post
                  Some of the suggestions sound actually interesting and good, but autocasting skills and potions is just plain wrong for any class, that... for any class. You probably thought of skills like Battle Rage and Shield Block, but most skills actually need at least either aim or timing. The when would be on cooldown, but how would this autocast system determine where to cast Singularity and Blizzard for a Mage? Last place I tapped? Highest mob density(works so great with Frost Beam...)? What about priority targets? And where the **** would teleport end up?!
                  Let's actually break this down using the existing skills. I'm more familiar with warrior skills... so here we go:

                  Skills to keep up constantly, hence perfect candidates for autocast
                  Battle Rage, Shield Block, WW, ITZ,

                  Skills that can use current target, thus just about perfect for autocast
                  Deadly Throw, Devastate,

                  Skills that actually need an aim for maximum effectiveness, therefore you DON'T want it on autocast
                  Shockwave, Leap, Charge

                  I mean given the lineup of skills, there is only one skill that I need to manually target (shockwave). The rest can be safely toggled to autocast and saving the mobile player countless swipes, finger fatigue, vision blockage, and neighbor's lost cat. So this autocast system will be a godsend to mobile warrior players especially so since warriors are considered one of the more spammy class to play.

                  Bounty Hunter:
                  Skills to keep up constantly
                  None, there is no real buff skills
                  Skills that can use current target or similar smart targetting (like snipe proc currently), thus just about perfect for autocast
                  Rapid Fire, Snipe, Multishot, Heatseeker
                  I can see arguments to remove snipe, ms and hs from this list as the more discerning players might want more control. That's is fine, at least you have the option to do either. If you don't want autocast, just don't toggle it to active
                  Skills that need aim/timing for maximum effectiveness.
                  Smoke Screen, Snipe
                  I put snipe there for the "auto muting" aspect of control.

                  Again if someone is willing to give up some control, only manually operate smoke screen, which itself is a skill that is only useful to get out of a bad situation/get out of jail card, you can literally have the rest on autocast. While doing trial, you could have snip on autocast until bossing, then just turn it off and do the usual auto-mute technique.

                  In conclusion, a significant boost for BH on mobile, allowing assault mobile players to keep up the rapid RF on par with PC.

                  Mage: my least played class. Was top 50 in ANB2 in this class, so I'm not completely unfamiliar.
                  The only skill that I MIGHT autocast is Blizzard and or frost beam. Singularity is most effective when you shoot it off in an angle. You definitely want to control Blink placements. Until Time Warp, Arcane Reflection, Death from Above get better....

                  So mage class on mobile will benefit less from autocast. Unless smart targetting or priority targetting gets implemented, one should still do most of the heavy lifting manually..

                  Perhaps someone with more mage experience can chime in here. But the benefits to warrior and bh are obvious and significant.

                  Happy to hear otherwise.
                  GAQO KITO REZO 1934

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bounty View Post
                    Nothing is going to bridge the gap between PC and mobile.

                    Just make separate Leaderboards. If system detects any connection via PC, even if you go back and forth from PC to mobile, then you are on the PC leaderboard. This applies to events only.


                    It sounds drastic but is an easy fix, unless system cannot differentiate between emulators and mobile. If so......it is what it is.
                    Yes, there is a big gap. But the system can't detect the emulators from actual mobile players. So the separate LB idea just isn't practical.

                    Not able to completely bridge the PC and mobile gap doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make life a little easier for the mobile players. That's all my suggestions are trying to accomplish.

                    Plus:
                    One last thing about Event rewards. How about we do it like in Golf. Top 10 gets 4 piece plus everyone that completed the lowest completed trial in top 10. Top 25 gets 3 pieces plus everyone that completed the lowest completed trial in top 25 etc. Map RNG is a real thing, I'm stuck at 11th at end of ANB3, 10secs slower than the 10th place. I'm sure a better map would have easily bridged that 10secs or more. So this becomes more a random luck factor, not very indicative of the skill/effort.

                    I wondered if anyone in the warrior top 10 did it entirely on mobile like I did. If PC/mobile gap is real... do I deserve a cookie?
                    GAQO KITO REZO 1934

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Arionthe View Post

                      Yes, there is a big gap. But the system can't detect the emulators from actual mobile players. So the separate LB idea just isn't practical.

                      Not able to completely bridge the PC and mobile gap doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make life a little easier for the mobile players. That's all my suggestions are trying to accomplish.

                      Plus:
                      One last thing about Event rewards. How about we do it like in Golf. Top 10 gets 4 piece plus everyone that completed the lowest completed trial in top 10. Top 25 gets 3 pieces plus everyone that completed the lowest completed trial in top 25 etc. Map RNG is a real thing, I'm stuck at 11th at end of ANB3, 10secs slower than the 10th place. I'm sure a better map would have easily bridged that 10secs or more. So this becomes more a random luck factor, not very indicative of the skill/effort.

                      I wondered if anyone in the warrior top 10 did it entirely on mobile like I did. If PC/mobile gap is real... do I deserve a cookie?
                      What i hear is emulator suck and that the improvement in play between mobile v emulator isn't much. I'd settle for that.
                      BH - Stalker - TL 138 (PC)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bounty View Post

                        What i hear is emulator suck and that the improvement in play between mobile v emulator isn't much. I'd settle for that.
                        I already said this in Discord. Disregarding and overlooking what all mobile users has to say about it. The only thing that can help mobile-solid users are separate leaderboard from PC.

                        Then there's the birth of the issue between an Emulator and a mobile (phone user). I'll say it, (although, totally unfamiliar with such issues), Emulator sucks so bad. If someone will try making scripts with it anyway, it's not allowed and can be banned (how to detect? defeat a trial that no one can - ask for a video, easy). OR better yet, just accept that.

                        At the very least, I'd say it's far easier to play in mobile than in an Emulator (tried it, it's so bad). Unless they look into this, just join them if you can't defeat them as they said (PC users).

                        I'm at first, a solid mobile fan, but nothing can be fixed by whining and I have to move on and adjust accordingly. If I can do it, so can anyone but to each, his own.
                        Bounty Hunters: Aice Sang (Assault), Natalia (Stalker)

                        Mage: Seulgi (Exp), Suzybae (ANB 3 3rd & Live-LB 11th)

                        Warrior: Asuna

                        FIRU VARI WAFI 3808 (Mobile & PC)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Suzy.Bae View Post

                          I already said this in Discord. Disregarding and overlooking what all mobile users has to say about it. The only thing that can help mobile-solid users are separate leaderboard from PC.

                          Then there's the birth of the issue between an Emulator and a mobile (phone user). I'll say it, (although, totally unfamiliar with such issues), Emulator sucks so bad. If someone will try making scripts with it anyway, it's not allowed and can be banned (how to detect? defeat a trial that no one can - ask for a video, easy). OR better yet, just accept that.

                          At the very least, I'd say it's far easier to play in mobile than in an Emulator (tried it, it's so bad). Unless they look into this, just join them if you can't defeat them as they said (PC users).

                          I'm at first, a solid mobile fan, but nothing can be fixed by whining and I have to move on and adjust accordingly. If I can do it, so can anyone but to each, his own.
                          I wrote this in another thread. But I think it is worth repeating the real issue between PC and Mobile GAP as related to skill triggering. The planned global 1sec CD and 0.75sec skill queue doesn't really address the primary culprit behind the gap.

                          "You are very mistaken about the actual effect of the 1sec global CD on leveling the playing field between PC and mobile.

                          This means very little in fact. Just assume all Skill CD gets a +1sec duration. The additional minor skill queue has its own problems. This is, in my opinion, a clunky fix.

                          Real Issue is this:
                          PC user just spams the skill buttons constantly. The marginal cost of performing a skill trigger with the keyboard button smashing is next to zero.
                          Adding a global CD does NOT change one bit how PC player will play. This changes NOTHING in the PC land. PC player PAYS NO attention to the actual CD of skills. There is no need to.

                          Now look at what the mobile player deals with when trying to trigger a skill.
                          Drawing a symbol costs time, effort, and also blocking vital combat display area (less combat situational awareness). Therefore the cost of performing an effective skill trigger on mobile is on orders of magnitude higher than on PC. Because the cost is high, that means a failed symbol (drawn before CD finishes) carries a high penalty in performance/efficiency. Therefore a mobile player will need to CONSTANTLY monitor the status of the CDs on skills. Drawing attention away from the actual combat. This results in higher error rates, misclicks, and everything else that goes into a failed trial run.

                          With the global 1sec CD AND 0.75sec skill queue, this reduces the failure rate of mobile skill trigger (less often an early draw will result in a do over). But it does not reduce the marginal cost of performing a skill trigger in mobile environment. So you STILL need to monitor the skill CDs and pay the higher cost in terms of time and effort and attention away from combat to perform a mobile skill trigger.

                          The above are the reasons why this fix and the consequent coding cost the devs performed will result in small net improvement of mobile experience. Not exactly a high return on the time/capital invested. The gap between PC and mobile goes from a nuclear ICBM and a knife to a nuclear ICBM and a magnum 45. Yes there is some improvement but in reality, PC stays leaps ahead.

                          The rational and consequential fix is autocast. Because what PC has is almost the equivalent of autocast anyway. So mobile needs autocast to compete. "
                          GAQO KITO REZO 1934

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Arionthe View Post

                            I wrote this in another thread. But I think it is worth repeating the real issue between PC and Mobile GAP as related to skill triggering. The planned global 1sec CD and 0.75sec skill queue doesn't really address the primary culprit behind the gap.

                            "You are very mistaken about the actual effect of the 1sec global CD on leveling the playing field between PC and mobile.

                            This means very little in fact. Just assume all Skill CD gets a +1sec duration. The additional minor skill queue has its own problems. This is, in my opinion, a clunky fix.

                            Real Issue is this:
                            PC user just spams the skill buttons constantly. The marginal cost of performing a skill trigger with the keyboard button smashing is next to zero.
                            Adding a global CD does NOT change one bit how PC player will play. This changes NOTHING in the PC land. PC player PAYS NO attention to the actual CD of skills. There is no need to.

                            Now look at what the mobile player deals with when trying to trigger a skill.
                            Drawing a symbol costs time, effort, and also blocking vital combat display area (less combat situational awareness). Therefore the cost of performing an effective skill trigger on mobile is on orders of magnitude higher than on PC. Because the cost is high, that means a failed symbol (drawn before CD finishes) carries a high penalty in performance/efficiency. Therefore a mobile player will need to CONSTANTLY monitor the status of the CDs on skills. Drawing attention away from the actual combat. This results in higher error rates, misclicks, and everything else that goes into a failed trial run.

                            With the global 1sec CD AND 0.75sec skill queue, this reduces the failure rate of mobile skill trigger (less often an early draw will result in a do over). But it does not reduce the marginal cost of performing a skill trigger in mobile environment. So you STILL need to monitor the skill CDs and pay the higher cost in terms of time and effort and attention away from combat to perform a mobile skill trigger.

                            The above are the reasons why this fix and the consequent coding cost the devs performed will result in small net improvement of mobile experience. Not exactly a high return on the time/capital invested. The gap between PC and mobile goes from a nuclear ICBM and a knife to a nuclear ICBM and a magnum 45. Yes there is some improvement but in reality, PC stays leaps ahead.

                            The rational and consequential fix is autocast. Because what PC has is almost the equivalent of autocast anyway. So mobile needs autocast to compete. "
                            Basically, people want to kill how the game is supposed to be played because of platform gaps. In my opinion, this is regarding Leaderboards and events.

                            Just separate it and issue is fixed. I don't care about the emulator vs Mobile issue. It can't be and can never be resolved as far as what we have right now is concerned.
                            Bounty Hunters: Aice Sang (Assault), Natalia (Stalker)

                            Mage: Seulgi (Exp), Suzybae (ANB 3 3rd & Live-LB 11th)

                            Warrior: Asuna

                            FIRU VARI WAFI 3808 (Mobile & PC)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I actually think the mobile experience can be significantly improved absent of thinking about the PC platform at all. I'm more interested to have a better mobile setup. If in the process this narrows the gap between PC and mobile, all the better.
                              GAQO KITO REZO 1934

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