Rerolling stats: don't offer the same stat again

[Christian Lamine]

For heaven's sake: there's a reason why we want to RE-roll a stat on a piece of equipment. Don't just present the same stat again - at the VERY least, improve it's value when the type does not change. I wasted like 500 gems on rerolling just now and got the same ***beep*** stat offered on like 6 successive rolls. That's just bonkers. Please invest more than a single brain cell in features that cost players their (ingame) currency. Sorry for the rant but this incident just drives ME nuts.

[Ozymandius]

Agreed, all three options should be NEW stats! Not sure why the system always gives you the existing stat; it reduces your ability to upgrade a piece of gear because your really only get 2 choices with each reforge attempt.

FYI, I have found through trial and error that selecting one of the other stat options is better than keeping the one you currently have. It seems to reset the rolls differently.

[Tin Man]

A simple example that is relevant right now?

For ANB I craft complete experience legendary gear when I hit level 70 for pushing CLs. At the end of ANB I reforge away, or at least attempt to, the experience for damage, normally fishing for Critical Rating. If I hit reforge and the options I am given are only Extra Gold, Parry Rating and Dodge Rating I have just nullified my gear piece as being helpful. I have to live with the neutered piece of gear or am forced to reforge to something, anything that is actually productive. Now I am forced to do another reforge whereas right now I can just choose to leave the stat as is and try reforging again if I choose to and can afford to.

Reforging a usable piece to an unusable piece is unsatisfying in my mind or means that I will only try reforging if I have several thousand gems in reserve in case I have to go through a long, drawn out process because a reforge went poorly. My experience is rarely does a single reforge work out well for me. Much more often than not multiple reforges are necessary to get what I want. I will, however, do a single reforge just to see what is offered since I do not have to accept it.

I saw that Christian Lamine mentioned a "Cancel" button. That the original stat is offered at its original value is a "Cancel" button that also reminds you what the original was. Saying that you want four options rather than the current three? I am all for that. Saying that you do not want the Experience value to appear twice with one being the original 43% and the other being an improved 44%? I agree with that.

Forcing me to go all in on a reforge? Just does not excite me.

Now, if you are talking about reforging a beautiful level 77 Blackguards with perfect damage, Critical Damage and Ability Rate but with a fourth stat of Parry Rating? Yeah, I will reforge away that Parry Rating and never, ever want to see it again. Practically, and in this case definitely, anything is better than Parry Rating and I would be insane to keep the Parry Rating.

I only started doing reforging in the last several months after completely ignoring it for a very long time. I know do both types of reforging mentioned above though the majority of my reforging seems to be adding or removing experience and frequently back again for a really nice piece.

My feelings can all be summed up here.

I just like having the ability to cancel a reforging after I have paid.

Others are free to disagree. That is just my personally preference.

[Ozymandius]

I think the difference is that you are considering reforging to be a "one and done" gamble where you could potentially lose a valued stat. I look at reforging as a process consisting of multiple rolls with the goal of upgrading a piece of gear that is no longer useful for your hero's needs. I can probably count on one hand the number of times that I got a useful stat on the first roll of reforging. More often than not, I am rolling between 5-10 times to get a stat that will result in a significant upgrade. For me it is a simple probability function where 3 chances to get an upgrade will always beat 2 chances to get an upgrade.

Even with your ANB example of forging away XP in hopes of getting a damage or vitality slot for the final push. Why would you want to hold onto that XP stat? In my book, it has outlived its usefulness. Unless you are a mint in the box newbie, what possible use do you have for XP gear once the ANB has ended? You probably already have an XP grind set in your stash, and if not you can easily craft something better without the time pressure of an ANB.

[Tin Man]

I am not necessarily "one and done" but do not like downgrading my ANB hero. Gems can be very limited during ANB which means there are no assurances how many reforges you have available. I would keep Experience any day rather than being shouldered with Extra Gold, Parry Rating and Dodge Rating for final push with a warrior. At least the Experience will give me more CLs while the Parry and Dodge actually hurt my ability to do damage.

To answer your question, I normally get all my regular gear from my ANB heroes. I do not do much gear stuff outside of ANB. Yes, I have resources outside of ANB but I choose to use ANB for gear acquisition because it makes such a big difference with ANB. When they keep on increasing equipment levels I am always hunting new gear. I have not used the ephemeral armor in some time.

I know I am odd. Just the way I am doing things.

I just like the ability to cancel out of a reforge that is not attractive to me rather than being forced to choose among the options presented. Just a personal preference.

We don't seem to be disagreeing about wanting more productive reforging. Just a matter of preferences on how to get there. I just presented an appreciation for the option to cancel when the presentation was to remove that option. I just don't like the idea that the last reforge I can afford to do could force me to use stats that are terrible.

I really do see where you are coming from. Just means that rather than taking a gamble with reforge I would only try it if I had a sure thing meaning I had enough resources to ensure I get what I want.

[Christian Lamine]

Based upon your proposal I am now given Extra Gold, Block Rating and Parry Rating as my reforge options. All three are horrible options and would have been much happier leaving the stats as experience as that is at least somewhat useful. I am forced to change the stat to a completely undesirable stat.

Sorry, this is not how it works. You are able to switch to a completely different stat that requires different essences when crafted. In the ANB events past I rerolled experience for vitality, power or crit dmg for example. So you're not bound to the set of stats you named (xg, br or pr). And, moreover, even after rerolling you're free to re-roll again if you really don't like any of the options that were presented as a replacement stat, and sooner or later you'll end up with the stat you (perhaps accidentely) rolled away from.

When a player decides to re-roll a stat he/she deliberately and conciously decided to get rid of this very specific stat that was chosen to re-roll, either in an attempt to improve on it's value or to completely change the stat type at all. Point is, the decision to get rid of the stat that IS already present on the item is clearly made. There is no logic behind presenting the exact same stat with the exact same value again. And, you need to take into account that actual value was spent in the decision to reroll (either it was playing time gathering gems or real money to buy them.

Now one could say: this would be an easy way to maximize the stat value of a stat on an item. Then I would reply: there's a very much cheaper and comfortable way of achieving this already: a celestial cube. And this way (the CC) even lets you raise all stats, one by one, so you are able to get "the perfect piece" by this means. With re-rolling, you can just alternate a single stat. And if that stat reached maximum level, yet still the re-roll button was hit: it would be my best guess that the player just does not fancy this very specific stat.


// edit:

I might have misunderstood your choice of the replacement stats. If I did (and it seems most likely to me when reading it for the third time ) let me correct my post by stating: yes you can end up with the stats as replacement choices that you mentioned. That's bad luck then (and believe me, I've had plenty thereof when rerolling items in the past). But the problem nevertheless stays the same: you chose to re-roll on a given stat, and therefore you made the concious decision to get rid of this one. It makes no sense to present the same as a choice after rerolling again, even if other possibilities would be worse - remember: the decision to change the stat was already done. And then it's just up to your personal luck if you hit the stat you desire...

// edit 2:

But you say that I could always keep reforging to get the original stat back if I never see an option that I like? Just seems like now you have created a scenario where I could spend 1K gems and not get what I wanted nor have what I had and ruined a piece that I otherwise liked.

This could simple be circumnavigated by adding a "cancel" button at the bottom of the reroll screen. The gems would have been charged already for rerolling, and you would end up having 3 different stats as replacement options (one of them might be the same type as the rerolled one with an improved value) plus the option to cancel it alltogether if nothing pleases you.

Still: presenting the same stat while charging gems does not make any sense.

[Tin Man]

Again, I see your perspective but I am just say that just because I am willing to change the stat does not necessarily mean I want to be forced to change the stat. If I am forced to change the stat? At least for me, reforging is removed as a tool for ANB.

Being willing to pay a relatively small amount of gems to see what options I am offered and being able to refuse those offers is different from going down a one-way path that could have huge costs to possibly undo. You mentioned Celestial Orbs. Yes, you can use those to do increases to specific values but they are incredibly resource intensive.

I have no idea which path for reforging the majority of players prefer. I am just commenting that there are some, at least one, that actually like it the way it is.

BTW, the example I used was reforging away a fire based stat to either fire based or earth based. I am aware that the options given during reforging are not limited by the essence type of the stat being reforged.

If I am alone or the minority in my opinion? Not a big deal. Just wanted to provide what I hoped would be constructive discussion of the pros and cons. No, I am not trying to say the exchanges are not constructive and I really do understand the passion towards the topic.

[Jose Sarmento]

Implementation aside, I will second the opinion that two change options is too low, and makes the Reforge generally feel like a gems grab (or as my Spanish friends say, "sacaquartos")

[DazednConfused]

Yeah! Lol I couldn't agree more!

[Moonshadow]

I've had several times where the stat I'm trying to roll away is offered twice out of the three choices... super annoying.

[Tin Man]

The first one is always the existing stat at the same value. Yes, the same stat can appear a second time but at an increased value. Most will find that annoying. If I am trying to say reforge from Experience to a desired of Critical Rating and I see Experience twice? I select the higher value Experience and continue reforging. I have not the faintest clue if it helps any but it makes me feel better.

I have not documented or tracked what values are offered when you reforge, someone else probably has done this some time, but my gut feel is that if you reforge from say Parry Rating of 82 you are offered a Power of roughly 82. My hope is that by choosing the higher repeat value the overall values that pop up will increase that small amount while I fish for the stat I desire.

[Nhat]

Based on what I've seen (from wasting way too much Gems on reforging during ANBs... and don't even use the item... haha): the only exception is when the same stat is given - which must be higher than the existing. If a different stat is given, then it can be anywhere between the min and max for that level.

[shengabus]

Alternatively, like in jewelry crafting, allow a fee to specify which stat to roll TO. The value ruled would still be random (so if you want a GOOD value of the specific stat, you would have to roll again).

Maybe 100 gem cost (could easily be cheaper than random rerolls) for legendary.

E.g. you specifically want movement speed or whatever.