Please unnerf AR and I have the math to prove it

[Arionthe]

The recent nerf on AR (1k AR used to provide 50% CDR now 40%. 1500 AR now provides 50% CDR) is think is unwarranted and the real issue is alacrity not AR.

1.49 version is the baseline for comparison. Here comes the math.
A skill with unmodified 45 sec CD will have (assume 1500 AR provides 2/3 CDR, I'm not sure but I think this is close) 15 sec CD. Assume a 8 attack warrior using BR will trigger alacrity 2.4 times a sec at AB 1500. Alacrity reduces CD by 2 secs for every trigger. So that is 4.8 sec raw CDR per sec. This number I believe is modified by AR. So a net 1.6 sec CDR is produced by alacrity per sec. Therefore that 45sec CD skill is 15sec CD by AR alone and becomes 5.8 sec CD with Alacrity at the same 1500 AB. Imagine how high you would have to stack AR to bring it from 15 to 5.8 secs. Alacrity makes the bulk of the difference.

Now the 1.59 beta nerf to AR makes 1500 AR 50% CDR instead of previous 2/3. This is a big nerf has the same 45 sec CD skill is now 22.5 sec CD instead of 15 sec CD. However let's see how alacrity plays into this. Assume same warrior dw build at 8 attack a sec, you are still triggering a raw 4.8 sec CDR. Now modified by the new AR nerf, the net CDR produced by alacrity is 2.4 per sec. So what is the end result? 45 Sec CD skill is 22.5 sec CD after nerfed AR but only 6.6 sec CD when you factor in alacrity.

Alacrity reduced the skill from 22.5 to 6.6 sec by itself.

Alacrity is the hidden CDR monster. Everything else pales in comparison. The nerf on AR hurts those of us who are not topped out in gear and not already high end in attack speed. And yet it produces little difference to top end players.

Recall the nerf on BR recently from 7 sec to 5 sec? The only people that feels the nerf are us middle class players. It had practically no effect on top end players as they can depend on alacrity to keep BR up 100% still. It was just more tedious, drawing the symbol every 5 sec instead of every 7 sec.

Here is the plead to the Devs, reverse the nerf on AR. It only hurts us not already at the top tier. It does little to nothing at the top/end game. The real issue is alacrity, not AR.

[hades0505]

You are missing something central in your whole reasoning: you use a warrior as a baseline, neglecting the other two classes completely.

[Arionthe]

You are missing something central in your whole reasoning: you use a warrior as a baseline, neglecting the other two classes completely.

It is done on purpose. The nerf to AR I think is to tweak the unsuccessful nerf on BR 7sec to 5 sec duration. There isn't another duration skill that suffers the law of unintended consequence like BR. In short BR is too good relative to other warrior skills. It was never meant to be a always on skill. Otherwise it should be a passive. But the mechanics of alacrity meant for high end players, it is always on. There is little you can do about it when only adjusting AR.

Other two two classes don't have a skill like BR.

[Arionthe]

I mean a straight buff that is hugely powerful and yet not situational. Blink is also a must have for Mage but it is situational in its usage. There is no strategy involved in BR. Just keep it on

[hades0505]

BTW, alacrity has yet to be implemented, so you are working completely on assumptions that we have yet to see if they will remain unchanged.

[Arionthe]

Alacrity has always been in the game. It is just now been given a name and now affected somewhat by AR. It used to be 25% chance flat. Look at your skill cooldown. Have you wondered why it sometimes speed up suddenly? That is alacrity at work.

[hades0505]

Alacrity has always been in the game. It is just now been given a name and now affected somewhat by AR. It used to be 25% chance flat. Look at your skill cooldown. Have you wondered why it sometimes speed up suddenly? That is alacrity at work.

I am well aware of it, I am just saying that the stat per-se (as a gear modifier) is yet to be implemented. Anyways, in the beta, my shield warrior with CL 579 (now 740, but when I cleared it was 579) managed to hit trial 90 with rather poor/below average jewelry, around 33% CDR from ability rate (probably even less) and around 6 atk/s. And I never had the feeling of being kept back due to lack of enough cooldown.

[Arionthe]

Alacrity will never be a stat on the gear. It is just an innate passive that based on the mechanics of how it works does 75% of all the actual CDR. You don't feel a lack of CDR with only 33% CDR from AR is due to two things. One your probably wear a mantle so once its effects are fully triggered you are looking at 45% CDR. 2nd, and more importantly, if you followed my example in the original post, alacrity does most of the CDR anyway.

[hades0505]

Alacrity will never be a stat on the gear. It is just an innate passive that based on the mechanics of how it works does 75% of all the actual CDR. You don't feel a lack of CDR with only 33% CDR from AR is due to two things. One your probably wear a mantle so once its effects are fully triggered you are looking at 45% CDR. 2nd, and more importantly, if you followed my example in the original post, alacrity does most of the CDR anyway.

I missed that point. I checked the game balancing post from Red and indeed it's as you say.

• The passive ability giving attacks a chance to reduce active cooldowns has been named “Alacrity”. Alacrity now provides a 5% chance to lower the cooldowns (was 25%), but this chance is increased by Ability Rate (up to 30% at 1500 Ability Rate).

On the other hand, you can always ask Coldet in this post if he sees sow much difference in CD pre and post beta with new accounts.

[Jose Sarmento]

I couldn't find it in a quick search, but I am quite sure the CDR from attacks is *not* 2s per proc. I can't recall if it's 0.25s or 0.5s (more inclined to the later), but either way - it's not that extreme.

[Arionthe]

I couldn't find it in a quick search, but I am quite sure the CDR from attacks is *not* 2s per proc. I can't recall if it's 0.25s or 0.5s (more inclined to the later), but either way - it's not that extreme.

For some reason I recall it to be 2sec per trigger. However that trigger is the raw number. It is then modified by your AR to a smaller number. That is why you don't see a big 2 sec loped off each time it triggers. Funny thing is higher the AR, smaller the net increment of CDR you see each time it triggers. Probably why you are more inclined to believe it is 0.5s per trigger. You could test this by taking all AR off and remove mantle. See what you get when the the CD suddenly drops.

It is certainly extreme when you realize that this doesn't obey DR and literally makes it impossible to make BR a non permanent buff due to its mechanics. But I think once you see that it is really 2s per trigger in raw numbers, or at least a number that is closer to my 2s than your 0.5sec, you will come around.

[Arionthe]

On the other hand, you can always ask Coldet in this post if he sees sow much difference in CD pre and post beta with new accounts.

Actually my issue with alacrity isn't just with beta. But rather its very existence in the game and how it has always worked. Only that I was tangentially aware of it but never understood its implications until I did some math recently. The base mechanics about it hasn't changed that much pre or post beta. It is just now influenced by AR somewhat but now you can make it even more overpowering in beta by investing more into AR (30%+ chance vs flat 25% before).

Its mechanics makes designing powerful tactical temporary buffs nearly impossible as it allows those buffs to be permanent instead of situational. There is a lower bound on how short you can make a buff last. It becomes nothing more than tedium when the buff lasts only 2-3 secs in order for it not to be on all the time. On the other hand, you will need to make the CD on the skill so long that all mid tier players won't use one of the best skills. Hence relegating a good skill to just top tier players. Neither fix is good. Yet that is what the current alacrity mechanics force the dev to choose as a fix.

I would have have been perfectly happy if all utility skill CD gets cut down in half and remove alacrity entirely. This way most of the net skill CDs will be similar to what we have today without the weird edge cases like BR.

But it I understand that alacrity was originally intended to bring some randomness to skill CD. So my solution is unlikely to be adopted. But I want to bring this issue to light so all the playerbase can see why the current situation is limiting in terms how certain skills can be designed.

If the Devs can control somewhat how long a gap a buff will have between casts, then they would be more willing to give us bursty, situational and impactful skills. That is what I am aiming for. Changing the mechanics in something that I found to be a problem so more interesting and diverse skills can be planned for the future.

[Arionthe]

I couldn't find it in a quick search, but I am quite sure the CDR from attacks is *not* 2s per proc. I can't recall if it's 0.25s or 0.5s (more inclined to the later), but either way - it's not that extreme.

I just tested myself in the training room. Taking all AR off (still had 250 which is good for 20% CDR). No mantle. I'm now very confident that it is 2s per trigger. Feel free to confirm this with your own training room testing.

[Led]

but I think there is a sec 2 cooldown after each proc...this keeps us top end players in check...

[Arionthe]

My testing doesn't feel there is an internal cool down. At 4.77 attacks per sec and 25% chance, I saw instances where heat seeker (longest cd skill I have ) dropping about 4 secs in quick succession. This suggests two very quick triggers of alacrity. Perhaps someone with high cl that is still in .49 can test it better by overloading attack speed with all the cl to see a 6 sec drop etc. not sure if the Devs would just solve the mystery for us by stating what it actually is.