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Gem sinks that are not game altering

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    Gem sinks that are not game altering

    Last few days have brought on some raw emotions with the latest beta change. Seems like some of the changes have caused the howls of P2W for the first time in Eternium's history. I personally define P2W as purchasable advantages that are overwhelming thus becoming game altering.

    Jewelries are the most important pieces of gear in the game. Thus gemstones that go into making those jewelries are game critical. Anytime when the slightest changes impacting jewelries are made, predictably they cause an uproar. Whether jewelries should be this powerful is another topic for another day.

    Assuming that the philosophies behind Eternium isn't to have pay to win. I have no reason to doubt this assumption unless this is an elaborate 3yr hoax that is all designed to build a big playerbase and then turn on the p2w machine to watch money pouring in for 6 months etc. (p2w games eventually die out as the payers no longer feel special enough since the masses had moved on)

    My feelings on the subject is that if the purchasable advantages are limited to small doses of daily conveniences and nonfunctional appearances, then why not. Goto town with it. Since we need the game developers to make a decent living so we can have the game we love to play continue to evolve with more gears, levels, skills, etc.

    My theory is make them feel special, but don't actually make them special.

    The boosters unfortunately crosses that line. The xp booster is borderline. Given how easily to gain level nowadays. It isn't game breaking but still close to the edge. The currency booster however definitely goes beyond that line. Gemstone is a resource that previously can only be gotten after long hours of grinding. With this booster, that is no longer the case. 12 months' work is now reduced to 3. Hence I can see why the Vets have spoken out. There is also the point of making things TOO easy. But more importantly you have now created two separate classes of players. Those that can pay and those that will be left behind.

    So I see the currency booster as a solid example of p2w while xp booster is borderline.

    I understand Devs' desire to bring more of the playerbase to a competitive level so the trial leaderboard and eventual pvp will be more balanced. I just think currency booster crossed the line there by creating a permanent separation of ppl that use it and those that don't.

    But there are many gem sink ideas that can be implemented without crossing those lines. I will list out a few suggestions below.

    Auto potion: Let's make those healer minion more fun by giving them a purchasable, temporary skill that will trigger the player to auto use potion/elixir when their hp falls behind 25%. Gem cost: whatever dev decide, duration: 1 week actual time. Btw also make this purchasable with gold but making it duration 30mins game time and a high gold cost. Why 1 week actual time for the gem purchase version? because the money players don't really grind that much. It feels like a long long time, but probably isn't longer than 2hr active game time. Also make this tied to the actual minion purchased, thus char specific and account specific. Hey let them have the chance to spend and spend big. btw since elixir and apple have CD, this doesn't make ppl immortal. So I don't see this as game altering/breaking.

    Auto skill trigger: Let's make Xghana? more useful by giving them a purchasable, temporary skill that will help the player auto trigger an utility spell (think BR, SB, anything with duration) about 0.5 sec after it becomes available. This is the officially sanctioned skill spammer. The 0.5 sec delay is to ensure this booster doesn't actually make the purchaser better at the game than a good skilled player. But it will give them some daily convenience thus their game play will be less tedious and more fun. Cost: dev says, duration: 1 day. There should be a gold version that is shorter in duration but based on active game time. Again no one will think of using these when attempting high trials, but on a lazy sunday afternoon xp grinding? sure why not.

    I have more.. but I have a meeting so let's start here.
    GAQO KITO REZO 1934

    #2
    I totally disagree that the currency boosters are anything special.
    They DO NOT supply gemstones even nearly as quickly as the long existing 99 gem/9 gemstone deal. That deal has been around for ages and I believe even the Vets have abused it BIG TIME.
    The currency boosters are NOT what the Vets are up in arms about.
    They are up in arms about the XP boost. I do understand how they feel, but at the same time I believe they need to get over themselves and stop acting like babies.
    RAKO LOJA CUSE 8372 - Coldet and VADA YOHI XUVA 4984 - Beta

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Coldet View Post
      . I do understand how they feel, but at the same time I believe they need to get over themselves and stop acting like babies.
      You should definitely pick your words better. The way you seem to caricature the grind certain players did over months/years (some playing the same set of maps for several hours a day, nonstop) goes beyond my understanding. Honestly, the way you judge them makes obvious that you do not understand them, not even slightly.

      I like the currency booster (the XP one should be gone, it's plain overkill given the xp curve at the beta) as it minimizes an utterly boring aspect of the game as it is gemstone farming.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by hades0505 View Post
        You should definitely pick your words better.
        Oh come on!

        "If you don't give me what I want I'm going to delete my heros"

        That is childish!



        RAKO LOJA CUSE 8372 - Coldet and VADA YOHI XUVA 4984 - Beta

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          #5
          Originally posted by Coldet View Post

          Oh come on!

          "If you don't give me what I want I'm going to delete my heros"

          That is childish!


          Did you even read the whole post? It is not a matter of getting something, but of snatching the grind of months with the implementation of a (unnecessary) XP booster that basically makes you feel like all the time invested was for nothing. The only two real reasons I've seen Led complaining about during the beta were the unintended (?) jewelry nerf and the xp boost. All the other things he mentions in his rant-quit post are somehow secondary (or at least he deemed them so on discord).

          Comment


            #6
            Do you even understand what "the grind" is? It isnt just CLs - everyone appreciates growing faster. The grind also requires skill, patience, frustration. It rewards with better gear, better jewelry, higher trials, deeper heroes, because you played.

            The issue we have is spending money to get xp, in conjunction with the new curve, means skip the entire line when you want to pay for it. Theres no limit, no control, and it doesn't require actually playing the game. It takes away from those who earn it or can't pay, and it marginalizes those who have already put in the time and their money.

            That's a stupid game. There are a million of them in the app store. You play for 3 days and quit.

            There are plenty of ways to meet halfway. Kill a year of grinding, but don't hand out all the top prizes instantly. Make rewards s a result of playing and not of buying. We'll be on board with that.

            ​​​​
            Last edited by abc127; 10-30-2017, 11:00 PM.
            VOWO TOSO QEME 4656

            Comment


              #7
              Ok, My original intent was to brainstorm ideas that devs can implement as gem sinks that offers small doses of daily conveniences and "look at me, I got money to spend on this game", but nothing that is game altering. Why don't we first set the parameter of what's really considered P2W? I have my ideas, I'm sure others do as well. Do we all agree that P2W is bad?

              So my definition of P2W is purchasable game advantages that can not be countered by a non paying player. Let's get our definition of the issue right and then proceed with our discussion. Btw let's list examples.

              Thanks.
              GAQO KITO REZO 1934

              Comment


                #8
                I have zero issues with grinding so long as the grind is rewarding. I've been pretty vocal that the "Quality" drops at low level Trials suck and make early progression through Trials unnecessarily difficult. I do like the current 1.2.59+ XP gain rate but could care less if it was as it was in 1.2.49.

                The only XP gain tokens I've used so far were the ones that were issued as trial rewards. I doubt that I would actually purchase them, but who knows? I may on occasion feel I need a push. I would certainly not be phased if they were removed from the game.

                As far as "Game Revenue" is concerned I strongly believe in the system that "Path of Exile" employs. Cosmetic and comfort items only. Nothing that gives one player an advantage over another. Having said that I also could care less if someone wants to waste his money by fast tracking through his recreation time.

                What I DO have a problem with is Adults acting like spoiled little brats throwing tantrums.

                EDIT: My apology to Arionthe - I certainly did not intend to digress away from your threads purpose.
                Last edited by Coldet; 10-31-2017, 12:19 AM.
                RAKO LOJA CUSE 8372 - Coldet and VADA YOHI XUVA 4984 - Beta

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Coldet View Post
                  What I DO have a problem with is Adults acting like spoiled little brats throwing tantrums.
                  I have a policy of contention avoidance, but I feel compelled to say I think it's unfair to judge the opinions of irritated vets (in this case, Led) harshly.

                  They worked hard for a very long time to achieve excellence and I think it's natural to feel deflated when the grading curve is so changed.

                  Led has never been a "look at me" guy. I think he's proud of his accomplishments (as he should be) but he is in no way arrogant. In fact, he has spent a lot of his time helping others and revealing his methods to help us achieve excellence as well. He has been a true asset to the game and an inspiration and aid for other players.

                  I highly value feedback from users of my programs and I know Eternium developers do too. I think it's because vets love this game that they feel compelled to give the feedback they have rather than just disappearing.

                  I think Led's feedback was presented in a mature manner; he has often been a good source for feedback for developers. Calling him names repeatedly is not.

                  - Just one frog's opinion
                  Cerberus
                  SESA YIFI CICE 9356

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'm unclear which part is "spoiled". Everything any vet has came from putting in time. Having an opinion that requires others to put in time doesn't seem so unfair. Again, most of us would be fine with something that requires LESS time - but you need to TRY to be able to get there
                    Last edited by abc127; 10-31-2017, 12:45 AM.
                    VOWO TOSO QEME 4656

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