Normal attack switching fix

[Arionthe]

mobile players are at an disadvantage for a number of reasons compared to pc. Some of which are not fixable but others we can close the gap some. I have two ideas. One is on normal attack switching and the other on utility skill triggering. If both foxes are implemented, I think much of the fixable gap will be closed.

Normal attack switching.
For Mage and warrior, certain normal attacks grant some lasting benefits beyond the damage they do.
RS does stackable dot that fuels SW. cleave slows mob down(not an advantage for me but maybe to others), arc lightning increase attack speed and dmg receives by mob, frenzy has ms and as boost. To maximize potential, one needs to constantly switch normal attacks so those benefits can be on all the time. This is currently only practical when playing on pc thus contributes to the massive performance gap seen between mobile and pc players.
Solution:
instead of assigning a single attack to either the single finger tap or double finger tap. Do the following instead.

Single tap
normal attack 1 ——- slider ——— normal attack 2

double tap
normal attack 3 ——— slider ——— normal attack 4

in place is normal attack 1-4, you can assign any of the normal attacks available. Using warrior, for example, put frenzy in the normal attack 1 slot, put RS in the normal attack 2 slot. The slider between the two determines the relative % each attack is performed. The slider is on a scale of 1-100. On 30 means 30% of the single tap attack will be normal attack 1 whereas 70% of the single tapnattack will be normal attack 2

same logic holds for double tap.
For those that still want the current system, all they need to do is put slider on 100 and have the current normal attack assigned to normal attack 1.
But for rest of us that want to maximize our dps potential by taking advantage of the normal attack switching. Then we can choose a percent breakdown. What I would do is (depending on my attacks per sec) I will choose a frenzy/RS split that nets me roughly 8 RS between frenzy sequence for every cycle SW refreshes. This way I come closer to max my dps without having to constantly switching back and forth attacks. As a mobile player the gameplay is already quite spammy.
This allows the focus to come back to finding the perfect combo of skills and this synergies rather than trying to tap perfectly and failing because I don’t have the finger dexterity of a 10yr old.

Instant skill triggering
another big advantage of pc player is the ability to hotkey skills thereby allowing them to instantly spam utility skills as they become available. As utility skill makes up for bulk of the total dps, this is a significant performance advantage.
I propse that we allow one level deep skill buffering. If a skill’s cd hasn’t finished yet, player can buffer one cast of the skill by drawing the symbol. Once buffered, the skill will auto trigger once it becomes available. If the skill isn’t buffered, of course it won’t auto trigger. Only allow 1 level deep buffer so we don’t have ppl draw 15 symbols in a row and just have a skill auto cast for an entire run.

Those two changes will fix two glaring performance issues that mobile players suffer in relation to pc players.

Welcome all comments and and other suggestions.

[Coldet]

Interesting post.
I certainly think touch screen desperately needs a toggle between primary and secondary attack skills.
I'm not sure I would go as far as the "Slider" to set a configurable auto attack sequence, but it is excellent food for thought.
good job m8.

[123Klutz]

good proposals that make it easier to play on touchscreens without big modifications

why not using potion/apple automaticly when the hero's life is low? maybe add a toggle to let us decide how many percentage of life to use them. FWIW, current design is anti-human, I don't remember how many times that I mistaped to make my hero moved to the corner, which made my hero cornered......

[giecomo]

I think the slider thing is slightly out there...

just make it easier to switch between 2 attacks, that'll be enough, instead of that whole percentage-slider business

[Coda]

Being a mobile only player, I'll give idea #1 a +1. For a Mage, we need to use Arc Lightning every 5 seconds, to trigger the %Damage and %Attack Speed boosts which occur when this Attack is at level 10. At AS = 5 (for example) that takes 0.2 seconds. Then switch back to Arcane Bolts for 5 seconds, or 4.8 to be conservative. % slider = 1/25 = 4% Arc Lightning and 24/25 = 95% Arcane Bolts. But in succession, not random. The 4% should not fire randomly, it should run in a fixed loop. But I only do that during the Boss Fight. For mobs, I mostly use Arc Lightning except when fighting a tougher Elite, or those darn "Sisters" that can heal all of their HP in one shot. So wouldn't want the slider (or whatever is implemented) to over-ride that. Would prefer to be able to "pause", adjust the slider, then "resume".

Idea #2 not so sure about. For a mage and a BH, there is a specific optimized order to fire off the spells. Not sure I want a buffer where I can't really tell what comes next.

I also agree with 123Klutz . I often have to repeatedly tap (cuz my fat finger misses) in the lower left corner to get an apple or potion to trigger. Then I have either wasted time, had my attention distracted, or end up running to some weird spot. Very frustrating. Usually by the time I try to tap Iapple" I am panicking and close to death. The above usually results in my rapid demise.

P.S. I hate the &^%$# "spiral" you have to draw to get your second minion to cast. Not that I use it much but it takes me 2 or 3 tries to draw that mofo symbol.

[Arionthe]

Coda, you may not know this, the arc lightening buff is actually stackable to 3. Each time arc hits again, the duration is refreshed. Whether the attacks alternate in succession or in % terms, the overall effect will be close. But % is a more general implementation thus easier to code. Also fits in with the randomization the Devs want in this game. See alacrity as an example.
The slider isn’t meant to make the attack switching perfect. But give the mobile players a way to tap the near max potential more easily. A good pc player will still be able to do better in this particular aspect. Devs probably don’t want something that gives you “perfect” effectiveness with no effort.

So the slider bar implementation gives you 80% of perfect with no effort. That is why this suggestion has a better chance of being accepted rather a precise sequencing of normal attacks.

As for skill buffering, you can still control what comes out next but not using the buffering. Ie not drawing the symbol while the skill is still in cool down. The buffering is optinal, good for times when you have settled into a pattern and you just want the skills get spammed as fast as possible (often against boss). So it can only help the situation. Hope you understand.

[Arionthe]

Some further clarification is needed perhaps.
Devs have said on more than one occasion that they want this game to be about play to win and skill over whatever else.
However you define skill, there are two aspects to it in this game. The mental skill and the physical skill. The mental skill covers the ability to find the right combination of gear stat and abilities to use. However much of the knowledge can be shared thus putting most on an even playing field. For someone new, just follow the newbie guide will get you 80-90% there compared to the veterans. That leaves the physical skill as the separating factor. But even that is skewed by the player setup. It is known that the game is played more efficiently on pc vs mobile. Invariably pc becomes part of the physical skill gap. It is an imperfect situation that one can’t truly separate the skillful from the rest due to physical environment.
Dyoma is considered an excellent player on mobile, even the best can’t overcome the pc advantages. For another example, look at skwiss and see what the Russian robot can achieve on pc vs on Android.

So feom my vantage point, I see two paths forward. And they are not either or but rather can be pursued at the same time.

Path 1, attempt to close the “physical skill” advantages of pc vs mobile even though knowing a truly equal playing field is impossible between the two (pc will always win out). Precise control, instant skill spamming on pc leads to basically one numerical advantage over mobile. In a given time period, a pc user will be able to generate more “effective actions” than his mobile counterpart. This is what creates the performance gap. Be it more effective dps or less vit needed to face the same mobs thus more gear stat can be invested towards dps.
So what is the solution in this situation for mobile? My answer is to increase the “effective actions” mobile players can perform during a given time frame given the mobile interface’s limitations. This argues for more automation, more game provided scripting. My suggestion was in this vein. Note one important part of this is the change must be optional. For a pc user who desires the precise control of what attack comes out next, my suggestion doesn’t change that at all for them. All they need to do is make the skill 1 100% on the slider and skill3 100% on the slider. That setup is indistinguishable from the current game setup. It is by keeping in mind the mobile limitations, that the suggestion can be performance enhancing. Instead of tapping furiously and often futilely, now one can achieve 80% of the benefit of attack switching without having to tap at all. Please note this isn’t because I don’t know a way to make it “perfect”. Simply, if you add another slider that controls the total number of attacks the %slider will be acting on, you can achieve the precise attack switching you want without doing any attack switching. The reason I didn’t propose that is because I know the game developers don’t want to take away the physical skill entirely. Thus my suggestion was a compromise. This change increase the “effective actions” a mobile player can perform without allowing them to actually threaten what a perfect pc user can achieve. But it will serve to close the gap some.

Path 2 is about increasing the mental skill aspect of the game. Currently there is the “best setup” that is generally accepted by everyone for each class. Be it full assault bh, dw warrior wearing 2j4a, or full apprentice Mage. There is little variety because the variations are few and all are focused on dps. There simply aren’t enough viable skill combinations with gear limitations to promote true build diversity. One reason is that skills are set as they are. They are viewed from the simple perspective of how much dps does it do. My earlier suggestion on a skill rune system is to rectify this situation. If every skill has its base damage and effects but with runes that modifies its effects. This opens up far greater possibilities. For example sw combos extremely well with rs and dw DT. But for shield warrior it is a missed opportunity. Imagine a rune that instead of doing the 800% next sec dot, changes the effect to 20% increased dmg received stackable to 100% for 5 secs. Now sw becomes warrior version of immolation. The skill’s utility to a shield warrior jumps dramatically. A skill rune system will open up a far deeper, more complex and nuanced skill build system. With such a system in place, the mental skill part of the game can again be a deciding factor. Plus it will give the game a far greater longevity, limited only by player’s imaginations.

anyway just wanted to get the above out of my chest. Only because there is so much to love about this game, would someone like me put so much thought into what I hope to see in the future of this game.

[Radament]

Agree to this. They could at least apply the toggle or have the PC players have their own PVP /Multiplayer entirely, It just wouldn't be fair Do'H!!!

[Munkir]

Agree to this. They could at least apply the toggle or have the PC players have their own PVP /Multiplayer entirely, It just wouldn't be fair Do'H!!!

Hmmmm...just get used to the idea that pc players will have a great advantage in pvp...dont think they will separate platforms.

[Mohawk]

Just my two cents...

for PC vs. Mobile and different/separate leagues, leaderboards, whatever...
How you wanna separate them? How you will separate emulator-user from 'real' android/mobile?
Some kind of flag in the LBs would be nice, but i don't think it's possible to differ the users at the end.

Slider control
Interesting idea... even if i don't like it for any reason. But interesting and as it would be optional... why not?

Instant skill triggering / Ability-queue
Don't like, as i think it's useless, according to the problems already mentioned (Boss triggers skill at the same moment as you, which results in dead).
Useless for me mentioning my last rounds with warrior - spamming one ability after another, as i am drawing the symbol for third skill i could already start drawing the first again... and so on...
What would help in my opinion: longer duration at least for the 'support-abilities' such as Battle Rage, maybe also Traps, Immolate - fine balanced with cool down of course.


My own opinion/Suggestions - What could help for Mobile vs. PC:
I like the symbol-drawing-thingy, however i never understood why you can't tap the buttons on the left also, just like potions.
Would make a lot of things easier, at least for tablet-user (like me ). Dunno how it would be on a mobile phone, but for used players maybe also better?
Also you can simply switch between primary and secondary attack without any other delay.

[Radament]

Hmmmm...just get used to the idea that pc players will have a great advantage in pvp...dont think they will separate platforms.

I want to think it and I am suggesting it. I'm not forcing it to happen. the hell's wrong with you?

[Arionthe]

Seems like I need to explain myself a little more on the utility skill buffering idea.
Current situation:
No skill buffering/queuing of any kind. If you draw/press key to trigger an utility skill before the CD is done, it's rejected and you will need to do it again to trigger the skill.
PC users have a great advantage in the current setup because the time to trigger a skill is infinitesimal as all that is needed is a key press. When you hear PC players talk about how they play the game, they are pressing the skill keys constantly. They are not checking if the CD is done. They don't care about that aspect of the game as they can just keep spamming the skill trigger hotkeys. They know there is no negative consequence of that play style and the skills will be triggered the instant their CDs are done. Faster spamming of utility skills be it buff spells or actual damaging abilities both lead to greater dps. Additionally as their attention is wholly focused on what is going on with the fight they are engaged in, they can properly react and make quicker/better decisions on what to do next.
Mobile users, however, suffer in comparison. If we draw the symbol just before the CD is done, it is wasted. It takes more time to draw the gesture. Often times the area we need to draw the gesture is right where the fight is taking place (skill targeting). Thus when drawing gesture to trigger the skill, mobile users are also diminishing their field of view. That often leads to a missed enemy attack. Due to the cost of drawing the gesture too early (see above), mobile users need to periodically check over the see if the CDs are done. This leads to the additional problem of not 100% focused on what is going on with the fight. These mobile interface limitations lead to the end result of less dps (skills can't be spammed as much), more errors due to lack of field of vision during gesture drawing, and divided attention to what is going on with the fight.

1 level deep skill buffering:
This fix does not take anything away from PC users. They will still be spamming as they always do. Their attention will still be 100% focused on the fight and what's going on. They see no disadvantage from this change. None.

What this fix does for the mobile users are two fold.
1) Now you are not penalized if you just drew that gesture one split second too early. So you don't have to redraw gestures anymore. This is not only a time saver and action saver. It carries the additional benefit less obstructing of player's field of vision since you are drawing gestures less overall. Additionally if done well, a mobile player can theoretically spam just as many skills as a pc user over a period of time (skills will trigger the instant CDs are done)
2) Mobile users no longer need to periodically check the CDs of their skills. They can now focus on the middle of the screen where all the actions are. Less divided attention, less errors and mistakes.

The fix simply allow the mobile players to experience what PC players already experiencing. This is about leveling the playing field. The fix takes nothing away from the PC players and just give the mobile players a chance to compete on a more equal footing.

Even with this fix, PC players will always enjoy quicker reaction, more precise movements. But at least some of the fixable gaps can be closed.
Take the stun ring example of TBD. All warriors need to avoid it. A PC user can wait until the very last sec to move and move JUST OUTSIDE the ring, and then go right back at the TBD for dps. A mobile player without the precise movement must allow himself more margin of safety. Therefore the mobile player moves earlier, moves further; both leads to the mobile player being out of the fight longer than the PC player when ALL ELSE ARE EQUAL. Hence PC players will always have inherent advantages. But some of the advantages can be made smaller with some smart changes around how things are done.

Both the normal attack switching (using % slider) and 1 level skill buffering are relatively easy fixes that takes nothing away from the advantaged class (PC) but levels the playing field some.

Comments welcome. Btw would really appreciate if Red (Developer) Adrian (Developer) and others can chime in.

[Munkir]

I want to think it and I am suggesting it. I'm not forcing it to happen. the hell's wrong with you?

Dont take me wrong,i would love that we could play at least fairly as a pc player....i just think its impossible...look your fps...and a fps of a pc player...i have pc...laptop...tablet and smartphone...im currently playing trial 96 has Ircere...not focusing in go further ...just grind for jewells and a few cl...when i started to play this game....was for fun mobile play...dont think will install it on pc ...at least until pvp comes around....because u like it or not....u never ...never will get any chance against pc platform....
Dont think im being rude...just straight....played for so long pvp...im old...gettin older lol...wish u and all the best...

[Radament]

Dont take me wrong,i would love that we could play at least fairly as a pc player....i just think its impossible...look your fps...and a fps of a pc player...i have pc...laptop...tablet and smartphone...im currently playing trial 96 has Ircere...not focusing in go further ...just grind for jewells and a few cl...when i started to play this game....was for fun mobile play...dont think will install it on pc ...at least until pvp comes around....because u like it or not....u never ...never will get any chance against pc platform....
Dont think im being rude...just straight....played for so long pvp...im old...gettin older lol...wish u and all the best...

Well you're not one of the creators, so it ain't your call to say it's 'impossible'. And even if you were, it won't be YOUR DECISION ALONE to make, Don't you have any idea what 'suggestion' means? Look at your response again. You look like you're high and mighty and have the final say in the matter, telling people what to do when in fact your just another player. You can't seriously blame me for snapping back.

[Faelyn]

Actually, imho the biggest advantage pc has is the ability to herd mobs and move with precision. I dont know how many people would like it, but the gap of precise movement between pc and mobile can be shortened by having an ingame joystick.

Next, about skills and the ability to spam. One quick fix would be to simplify the symbols drawn to cast them. For example, there are six skills that can be equipped at one time. The 3 hero skills and first minion skill cast symbol can be changed to lines. From left to right, right to left, up to down, and down to up. That by itself makes casting a whole lot easier. The last two minion skills can be assigned the v type symbols.

Attack switching. One very quick and easy modification would be to tap a monster once for the first attack, and double tap(with one fingers) it for attack number two. For example, a mage (AB on first and AL on second) herds, then just double tap for arc lightning. Either that or every tap is a toggle between attacks, with the first tap while not attacking always being the first attack. Example, a mage has AL for first attack, and AB for the second. He herds, then taps a monster. This triggers AL. While still attacking (with AL in this case), he taps again, or another monster. This triggers AB and the mage attacks with AB. With this mechanic, when the mage has to reposition, his first tap after moving will always trigger AL first since it is the attack in the first slot. I hope this idea is clear. If not, please say so i can try to explain better.

One more idea that can make the gap between pc and mobile closer is auto target. This would require a rework of most aoe attacks because every single one would be needed to calculated differently, and it would need mob detection. For example, scatter shot and arc lightning autotargets new mobs by detection which mob will yield the best results for said attack. Which center target of rend will hit the most monsters. The monsters in or near the center for big or small groups(explosion shot).

These are just suggestions and ideas that can be further improved upon with some thought. If they were implemented then the gap between pc and mobile would at least be halved. It takes work and time, and that means money. Plus we know the devs are focusing on something else, so we cant expect anything in the near future. I just do hope that they will at least give it a few thoughts.