Recovery mechanic

[Arionthe]

	Attacks/sec	W/Buffs	W/Skills	LoH	1 Mob Peak Recovery/sec	50mob Peak	Singularity 1 Mob	W/Bubble	Singularity 50 Mob	2X Singularity 50 Mob
Mage	7	10.5		1000	10500	10500	31000	62000	1581000	3131000
Warrior (DW)	7.5	11	15	1000	15000	15000
Warrior (SW)	6	8.5	16.5	1000	16500	16500		33000
BH	7.5	7.5	20	1000	20000	20000

The above are the rough estimates I have for end game recovery mechanic. Attacks/sec column assumes 3 archers, basically what you can find on your character screen out of combat. With Buff column assumes the maximum buff benefit from skills (Arc Lightning for mage, frenzy and battle rage for warrior, nothing for BH). With Skills column adds concurrent LoH triggering skills such as DT for warrior (4hits per sec for DW and 8hits per sec for SW, assuming two DTs are triggered, 2 RF spams within that 1 sec window for BH). Basically I'm giving BH and Warrior all the optimal conditions they can expect during that peak 1sec LoH trigger. Singularity is assumed to take the player's attack speed into account for the frequency of arcs hitting. W/Bubble refers to when the shield bubble is up. It effectively doubles the LoH during that period of time (confirmed in conversation with Red in the past).

There you have it, the peak recovery mechanic.
50 Mob is hardly the largest pull top end mages will pull. I suspect that number is closer to 100. But 50 Mob will do. The key is neither warrior nor BH's recovery mechanic scales with mob size. BH might be fine with that since the tactic is group to group fighting anyway. SW warrior however, isn't the case.

If 3.1million vs 33k does not look out of place, that's 94X difference, then I rest my case.

Remember my whole point is about how singularity recovery mechanic is out of proportion with anything else out there. The reason why Mage is still dying with this kind of recovery mechanic has everything to do with the HP pool and the mob damage (meaning HP is too low relative to mob damage in high trials). Just because the small HP pool is preventing the mage to fully realize the 3.1million recovery benefit does not mask the fact 3.1million is too much.

Btw 3.1million recovery is wholly unnecessary even at trial 130+. I'm sure even if that number is reduced to 300k/sec (still 10x better than the best the next class can muster), mage can survive.

Above numbers are just theorycraft, maybe Nhat can find a way to empirically test them. But for illustration purposes these should do.

[PeterK]

How about a change in the mechanics.

• The PC either blocks, parries, or dodge, or else not.
• If blocks... then LoH (like damage absorb).
• If not. . then actions slowed.
• At all times Recovery rescaled to LoH. Trials don't give the luxury of idling time.

[Bounty]

Arionthe,

Another way to look at it and it seem to me that Warrior and Mage are balanced and BH is underpowered.

If you think about it, this game was originally developed for mobile. Not PC. If you take away PC players from the LB. You would have mobile:

Mage 119 TL
BH 115 (stalker)
Warrior 118

As far as i know, the highest mobile Assault is 105-108 ish. It's the entrance of PC platform that has altered the original landscape to the detriment of Warrior class. PC made Assault 6 the champion build for BH that was not possible before with mobile.

[Arionthe]

How about a change in the mechanics.

• The PC either blocks, parries, or dodge, or else not.
• If blocks... then LoH (like damage absorb).
• If not. . then actions slowed.
• At all times Recovery rescaled to LoH. Trials don't give the luxury of idling time.

I can get behind that. Basically LoH becomes flat number damage reduction when Armor and such offers % reduction etc. Then recovery is made up of life regeneration, some Heal of Time skills (need more in that case for every class), and potion quaffing.

The key is make recovery controlled so it has no chance of overwhelming mob damage; thus reducing encounters to cake walks.

[Arionthe]

Arionthe,

Another way to look at it and it seem to me that Warrior and Mage are balanced and BH is underpowered.

If you think about it, this game was originally developed for mobile. Not PC. If you take away PC players from the LB. You would have mobile:

Mage 119 TL
BH 115 (stalker)
Warrior 118

As far as i know, the highest mobile Assault is 105-108 ish. It's the entrance of PC platform that has altered the original landscape to the detriment of Warrior class. PC made Assault 6 the champion build for BH that was not possible before with mobile.

I did mobile assault to 110 during ANB2 but your point is taken.

My post isn't about class balance per se. I don't really care much about class balance (favoring SW, basically one step below arcanist mage, teaches one to let go of class balance pretty quick). I'm perfectly fine with one class out damaging or out performing in some aspect as long as the difference isn't so dramatic (less than 2X let's say). I just find the singularity-loh in mob situation beyond compare (90+X). Honestly this much recovery is wasteful. Mage doesn't have the HP to fully take advantage of this recovery. Even if you "nerf" it to 10X from 90X, I still seriously doubt the current mage HP can take full advantage of it. That's a lot of wasted compute cycles to calculate those singularity LoHs. I'm not looking to bring mage down to SW level. I just think this is wrong in relation to what else are in the game.

My end game is actually trying to convince the Devs to LOWER the mob damage so that our HP pool becomes more than just a 1hko buffer. To do that, I just want to point out some weirdness in the current meta as related to singularity LoH.

[Suzy.Bae]

I haven't done anything yet with the closed Beta. What was nerfed? Wllly said something about piercing being "off". Anything else. BH is my main hero......

Minions no longer gets resurrected with the use of Smoke screen.

[Suzy.Bae]

I can get behind that. Basically LoH becomes flat number damage reduction when Armor and such offers % reduction etc. Then recovery is made up of life regeneration, some Heal of Time skills (need more in that case for every class), and potion quaffing.

The key is make recovery controlled so it has no chance of overwhelming mob damage; thus reducing encounters to cake walks.

It never has the chance of overwhelming mob damage. Like I said, Mage dies with a flick of a finger if mobs or arrows hit you. At 70k HP, with a singularity casted on a group of mobs, the heal looks basically like an apple without pauses (continuous healing animation). If you lower that at all, then if a Mage caught even just a single arrow again (yes just one at half HP), he's dead (Higher trial wise) not to mention elite projectiles and much more Melee elite hit.

...My end game is actually trying to convince the Devs to LOWER the mob damage so that our HP pool becomes more than just a 1hko buffer. To do that, I just want to point out some weirdness in the current meta as related to singularity LoH.

Go straight to the point then. It would be a better feedback/suggestion to get D efender set to increase HP or give a bonus to Endurance so the HP pool of Warriors can be buffed. (In anyway it's not made right, Warrior will become OP beyond imagination as they can deal stronger damage than mage if they can tank 5 mobs for example, spam RS & DT, run away, Shockwave.. rinse repeat.



You don't need to mess with a balanced class just to ask Devs to give some love to Warrior (They already said they'll do something about it - Soon TM). You should never compare skill mechanics of other classes unless they both have the same gameplay and strats being used on Trials.

[Purple Potato]

Arionthe,

I am inclined to agree with you, but what you are asking will considerably weaken Mage. Then you would have BH as king of the classes. As you can see by the LB, mage and BH and both stuck at 122 TL. Which tells me that the Devs did a hell of a job balancing mage and BH. So if you weaken mage, then you must also weaken BH. Why cause two fixes when are you have to do is fix one....buff up warrior.

Top Warrior is at 118 TL. Quite a bit behind. The easy fix is to upgrade Warrior. This is the only class that does NOT have a viable 6/6 build. Therein lies the problem. The simplest and fairest solution is to update Warrior. Give warrior a 6/6 build. Ultimate goal is to upgrade warrior enough so that the Top warrior will be able to achieve TL 122 just like the other classes.

Since I haven't read past this yet and want to respond to this before I forget-- here it is.

I can easily get to 124 with mage but just need the right maps.

Also a BH has finished 123.

[Jage]

This has more to do with your HP pool and device performance. On PC, your 1.8k loh with singularity into a mob should make you immortal (provided that you are still normal attacking so that the shield bubble is getting constantly refreshed). The other factor is HP pool. Let me make this example.

You have 10 Hp pool, your singularity is generating 10000 hp/sec. You are surrounded by a mob of 20 doing 100 dmg per second. Now your recovery is enough to sustain/face tank this mob. However your HP pool can't. There is simply not enough HP buffer to take the volatility of your HP bar, meaning enough damage hits you before that massive recovery can bring you back from brink of death to full health.

Same character but now with 1000 hp pool. Now that mob of 20 doing 100/sec (total 2k/sec) will never be able to threaten you as the recovery vastly outnumber the incoming damage.

So dying during singularity proc is not evidence of singularity driven recovery isn't OP. I don't know how high of a trial your mage can enter. But do this, equip jewelry made of VIT/LOH/ARMOR/AR (very cheap to make as you aren't using CD, CR). Use your CP to get enough haste for 6.5+ attack speed (you can equip a shield and drop the glass canon passive for even greater tanking power). I'm pretty sure you can basically stand and dodge nothing at your highest trial. Of course you won't be killing anything. The difference is doing the same jewelry on BH or W won't come close for the same face tanking ability. This should prove my point about singularity driven recovery is OP.

I see what u mean and the numbers do show it, In the case i was talking about my death came from several Crits and almost instant death recovery cant help there even at best..,, but i dont have problems in a good pull sing does alot combined with loh/recovery, in a perfect world..!

[Humus]

I haven't done anything yet with the closed Beta. What was nerfed? Wllly said something about piercing being "off". Anything else. BH is my main hero......

SS doesn't revive minions so you have much less attack speed especially during boss fights.

[Bounty]

SS doesn't revive minions so you have much less attack speed especially during boss fights.

That's a pretty big downgrade.