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Economic Model for future ANBs

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  • narf
    Originally posted by yaddab View Post
    1) Could see that.
    2) Could see that, but you would, in the interests of uniformity have to not have access to unlocked recipes either - you cant cherry pick.
    3) I don;t think stepping into a bad trial, and dying should yield a 2 minute penalty. Not fair
    4) Don't even understand that, they do come through ingame email don't they?

    Basically it is simple, all rewards are generated by the rng at the point they are earned - not when they are opened, end of.
    1), 3) and 4) are intended as countermeasures for specific exploits. Don't ask here, we can't and won't discuss them on the forums.

    3) is a no-go for me as you sometimes want to abandon a trial pretty much right away(spawn into an elite group, overall bad mob composition, a death during your 1st big pull, bad map,...).
    Don't like 1) that much, want to keep some RNG at least.
    2) definitely needs to happen. ML50 with all recipes has such a huge advantage over newer players. And disable medals for ANB as well.
    4) Duh... As long as something happens.
    Last edited by narf; 03-20-2019, 10:34 PM.

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  • Travis | Support Mgr.
    Nothing is being swept under the rug and no one has failed to acknowledge anything. The posts removed and edited contained verbiage that indicated how an exploit worked. Two users were banned from Discord. One came right out and described how to exploit, the other continued talking about the exploit despite being told to stop.

    Leave a comment:

  • Rogann
    I feel like those that finished in the top 100 in bronze and silver should be awarded extra medal.

    To get to the point

    1. Its logical. Needs to be either or with this. Either we receive custom ephereal boxes or we get nothing at all, no legendaries custom or otherwise.

    2. Its logical. Needs to be either or......

    3. I would almost say a 3 min penalty but that's pushing it so again I agree with 2 mins.

    4. I think thats what's in place already. Maybe i misunderstand.

    I also want to include a fifth resolution.

    5. Since many have participated..........
    they should be suspended from future events of one bronze event therefore missing silver and gold as well.

    Leave a comment:

  • Bounty
    Devs, I strongly urge that you guys take an aggressive and pro active approach to fixing the problems, some of which have been apparently ongoing since ANB#1. I also think it is only fair that Devs openly discuss these issues with your player base. Nuking posts and banning people from discord for discussing the specifics only shows that you don't care.

    Please do not sweep this under the rug.
    Last edited by Bounty; 03-20-2019, 10:19 PM.

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  • yaddab
    1) Could see that.
    2) Could see that, but you would, in the interests of uniformity have to not have access to unlocked recipes either - you cant cherry pick.
    3) I don;t think stepping into a bad trial, and dying should yield a 2 minute penalty. Not fair
    4) Don't even understand that, they do come through ingame email don't they?

    Basically it is simple, all rewards are generated by the rng at the point they are earned - not when they are opened, end of.

    Leave a comment:

  • Arionthe
    started a topic Economic Model for future ANBs

    Economic Model for future ANBs

    The new time limited ANB league events have been enjoyable. It has certainly fostered an environment of competition and no doubt have been beneficial to the revenue model of the game. This is a good development since without appreciable revenue, there won't be anyone to develop and create more content for this game.

    Some information has come to light recently that makes me question the future viability of the current economic model for ANBs.

    I will try to be careful in addressing this topic. I strongly ask anyone participating in this discussion not to spell out the particulars and how-tos that would force the admins to remove this important topic.

    RNG (random number generator) is a huge part of this game. In the most important ways this drives revenue. Much of the gems we spent, event value packs we purchase, farming and most of what we do in this game is all about OVERCOMING RNG. Without RNG, our progress through the game will not be halting but rather a rocketship ride straight to the top/endgame. RNG becomes even more important in any kind of time limited events that involve game affecting rewards. Basically shorter the time limit, less time to overcome RNG through pure effort and blind luck. Hence the value of gem purchases comes in. This gives you more shots at the roulette table.

    All of the above are well understood. To get to the top, you have to throw time and effort at it, when that's insufficient, you have to throw more and more money. In a fair competition, even an element of P2W is acceptable given the premise: we need the developers to succeed financially in order for our game to prosper. The familiar names adorn the top of the LBs through bronze, silver and now gold league. We lookup at them and marvel at their skill/luck etc. Their presence acts like the rabbit that goose the rest of us to chase them, in the process spending more and creating that frenzied competition feel. So far so good, we get enjoyable events and developers get more revenue.

    Until maybe 15hrs ago, then the entire facade crumbled in front of me.

    The mirage of fair play is what keeps the masses engaged. When that is threatened, what's left to motivate us?

    Now I'm actually quite sympathetic to the quandary this puts the developers in. On one hand, RNG is what drives the revenue. On the other hand without the veneer of fair competition, the masses might revolt against RNG playing such an important role during events.

    Update 3/25/2019: Why the economic model is under attack:
    In any thriving Freemium game, one needs both the whales and the plebs. The plebs vastly outnumber the whales but both are necessary in a sustainable community. The economics of a freemium game comes primarily from the whales. This fact has borne out over and over from many different freemium games across the spectrum. However the whales would not participate unless there is a huge thriving plebs. In effect the plebs serve as the scenery for the whales to feel good about themselves via the ingame advantages/recognitions their spending brought them. The trick here is to make sure those advantages are small enough as not to turn off the plebs in mass numbers. What good is a new suite of armor if no plebs are around to admire. This balancing act is probably the most critical element to a thriving freemium game. Btw plebs are also advantaged by the whales in that they get to enjoy an improving game experience that's only possible by the monetary contributions of the whales.

    So the plebs and whales are in a symbiotic relationship in a healthy freemium game community. Part of the reason I don't begrudge some element of P2W. We want the developers to do well financially so they can continue create more content for the rest of us to enjoy.

    The plebs and whales are two classes of players that populate any successful freemium game. The equation however changes...

    When a third class is introduced: the exploiters.

    The exploiters (btw can be either plebs or whales) enters a game community and their impacts are insidious. If the class is small and the knowledge of them is well hidden from the general gaming population (cynically I think this is also part of the reason why discussing exploits is such a taboo in ANY gaming community), it can actually INCREASE the economics the developers enjoy from their game. This is done by creating a false standard that is seemingly the product of great skill and/or greater spending. When the placid whales see challenges coming from this new class, their natural reaction would be to increase their spend as a way to match/retake their former position. This competition, like any good war, doesn't goto waste. While the exploiters make negligible monetary contribution to the developers (afterall the whole point of exploiting is getting the advantage without spending), the increase spend by the whales are real. But such a situation is inherently unstable due to the fact that the money it takes to overtake an exploiter is beyond any realm of reasonableness. I'm reminded of this fact by a recent post of badazz34 who indicated that he/she has spent over $300 per event while trying to PtW while failing to place in the top 10/25. Eventually the whales give up as increased spend doesn't result in the expected return. Ultimately as the whales are driven out by the exploiters, the economics fall drastically for the developers. This money being choked off sounds the death knell to the developers. We the plebs lose out simply as the game fades away.

    This process can be greatly hasten by the wide dissemination/knowledge of the existence of the exploiters. It is this reason that I understand why the subject is so hush/hush. This isn't the developers trying to sweep things under the carpet. This is the developers trying to protect their livelihood.

    A firm anti-cheating and anti-exploiting policy is actually very much in the interest of the developers.

    So as we wait for the unveiling of the ANB Gold final LB, I hope the developers can keep the above in mind. Exploiters destroy games by driving away whales. I estimate for a true whale to compete with an exploiter will mean spending over 10's thousands per league. This is simply not realistic. Now that we know, there is no going back now. For the game's sake, for the whales' sake, and for us the pleb's sake, I hope the developers will do the right thing. In the long run, it is the only option for a sustainable game community.

    My interim solution, updated 3/25/2019

    1) Change Random Set box rewards to Ephemeral Set box. ESB works like Lbox such that the player has the agency in choosing the stats and the set item (no weapon, cape, tome or non set item though). They will be legendary quality (4 stats) but will automatically roll at 85% of max stat for every stat (including Armor). So for a 90 stat, you will get 76.5, 60% CD becomes 51%, etc

    Basically you will always get useful set item but with low stats that they can be improved upon by higher trial drops where RNG can't be gamed AFAIK. This preserves some RNG in the ANB and inject an element of luck which is always fun in a competition.

    Where LBox (2) and CBox (2) are rewarded, instead Ephemeral LBox, ELBox, and Ephemeral CBox, ECBox are given out instead. ELBox, like ESB, makes items that automatically roll at 95% of max stat, and ECBox automatically roll at 99% of max stat + 90 Vit. They are just better version of ESB.

    The reward schedule has 4 RSB, combined with 2 LBox and 2 CBox. Unless one is the red headed stepdaughter of RNGuses, that's enough to complete any set a player might desire. Using Ephemeral equivalent, you have certainty and still leave room for improvement through trial drops.

    This also means that the small/medium/large treasury boxes should be shop ticket rewards. Basically here is what I envision, small chest gives you 6 tickets to purchase gold purchasable items from the equipment shop. Medium chest gives you 4 tickets for gold purchase and 2 tickets for gem purchase. Large chest gives you 6 tickets for gem purchasable items.

    Yes, get rid of all chests in ANB events is the goal here.

    2) Crafting: Remove the ability to craft legendary quality Set/unique for event character. Remove salvaging perk for event character. This removes the ability to craft endgame quality equipment. But leaves intact the ability to craft final missing set piece items and MS/XP items for early leveling.

    3) When a player enters a trial, if there is no corresponding official exit (meaning either the player using the in game control to abandon the trial, or exit through the victory/home portal), a 3min time penalty is assessed to the event timer. This change will not penalize players for on-entry death (elite mob swarming the entry for example) nor conscientious map shopping (as long as one uses the abandon trial or home portal to exit the trial normally, thus accepting the actual event time cost to assess the map).

    4) Gempack results should just be mailed to the player when opened. If the shop ticket idea is too much trouble, then chest content should also be mailed to the player when opened.

    5) I said it on a previous post and I think Nhat brought this up as well, Medal effects should be disabled on event characters. We all should have the same starting point right for a competition.

    I think the above four will address much of the issues on hand until a true technical solution can be found to block the easy path. I encourage all fair play minded players to chime in with your own thoughts on this matter.

    I hope a true solution can be found soon. Until then playing fair is akin to being a chump.
    Last edited by Arionthe; 03-25-2019, 09:32 PM. Reason: updated modified suggestions and why economic model is under attack