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    Whirlwind, a missed opportunity?

    WW works great at lower TLs. It has a very nifty vacuuming effect that suck mobs to you. It makes grouping a joy. The damage reduction buff it offers nicely match the fact you will be facing more mobs grouped this way. All in all the concept and execution is fantastic.

    But if one looks at the absolute peak trial for warriors, no one uses it. No DW will use it, nor any SW that actually overcame 139 (the dreaded Garm wall).

    For DW, charge, shockwave and devastate is the clear winner.

    For SW, BR, shield block and DT is the way to go. This has a very spammy gameplay thus an exclusive to the PC crowd.

    So I have been trying DW of late and in the process realized the main drawbacks of WW that limits its uses at peak trial.

    Drawback #1: No alacrity during its duration. When the skill is triggered, for a FULL 4 seconds, there is no alacrity. DW gameplay is all about chaining together the charge (+2k CR) devastate (build up that initial GW bleed) and shockwave (finish it with one big sonic blast). Charge's CR buff is only 5 seconds, If for the majority of that short 5 secs, the player gets zero alacrity trigger, all skill CDs are way behind the schedule. This is literally a deal killer at peak trial. Even at full AR, skill CDs can't be shortened enough to compensate. Devastate also suffers from the lack of alacrity trigger during its animation. The only saving grace is that its animation lasts 1.2 secs, not an eternity like 4 secs. If Devastate also lasts 4 secs, it won't matter how big the damages are, no DW bleed will be using it.

    Suggestion: Since alacrity is so central to the current game meta (I had a separate suggestion to make alacrity trigger more democratic by having defensive and utility triggers of alacrity, but who knows if that will ever see the light of the day), WW becomes a missed opportunity for peak TL DW. There should be some uniformity in how skills affect alacrity. For example for skills that replace normal attacks, it should also trigger alacrity based on the player's attack speed during the skill's duration. BH's rapid fire comes to mind. It fires off 8 normal attacks very quickly. Under the latest patch, those attacks procs alacrity at the normal rate (effectively increase alacrity trigger during that short RF animation). And yet for warrior, long duration attack skills (WW, devastate) actually extract a big alacrity penalty for using them. How about level the playing field some and give both devastate, and especially WW alacrity during its animation (based on the attack speed of the player, WW seems to tick at the player's AS).

    Drawback #2: During WW animation, all non buff skills are locked out. This is especially painful when one can't cast shockwave during WW. Shockwave is the bread and butter for DW bleed. It needs to be cast as often as possible. Having 4 seconds when the skill is completely locked out dramatically reduces the dps potential of a DW bleed. This makes the shockwave rotation extremely hard to execute as the charge buff is likely up moments after WW ends. So one would have to cast charge again to gain the CR buff but because WW doesn't trigger alacrity, charge isn't available yet (tested with maximum AR). So the entire skill rotation falls by the wayside. Similarly for shield warrior, the ability to cast DT during WW would be a welcome addition. This would make shield block, ww, and DT a more viable alternative than the current SB, BR, DT.

    Suggestion: Allow DT and Shockwave casting during WW animation phase.

    Love WW, would like to see it be viable near the top of the LB.

    Adrian (Developer) Red (Developer)

    Also noted DW players, Cereblon , Radz ,@vinatabak, NeoSamurai, orion_134 please chime in.
    Last edited by Arionthe; 06-27-2019, 06:09 AM. Reason: Singularity doesn’t proc alacrity
    GAQO KITO REZO 1934

    #2
    Originally posted by Arionthe View Post
    WW works great at lower TLs. It has a very nifty vacuuming effect that suck mobs to you. It makes grouping a joy. The damage reduction buff it offers nicely match the fact you will be facing more mobs grouped this way. All in all the concept and execution is fantastic.

    But if one looks at the absolute peak trial for warriors, no one uses it. No DW will use it, nor any SW that actually overcame 139 (the dreaded Garm wall).

    For DW, charge, shockwave and devastate is the clear winner.

    For SW, BR, shield block and DT is the way to go. This has a very spammy gameplay thus an exclusive to the PC crowd.

    Love WW, would like to see it be viable near the top of the LB.

    Adrian (Developer) Red (Developer)

    Also noted DW players, Cereblon , Radz ,@vinatabak, NeoSamurai, orion_134 please chime in.
    TLDR (Sorry bud). But yes I agree some tweaking could be had with WW.

    Hachi - #8 Leader-board, DW Warrior.

    Comment


      #3
      I hv tried WW+BR+SB (as those are the only skills that can be cast with WW in addition to ITZ but that kinda sucked) but seemingly doesn't work after TL110. But then I'm a n00b Warrior. I just hope someone else tried it and failed The biggest problem with WW is that nothing can be cast with it and it's a long cast ability. May be they can introduce some abilities that can be cast with WW. Casting Devastate with WW running would be ridiculous

      Comment


        #4
        WW should at least apply Alacrity and trigger Ruin of the Storm.

        Comment


          #5
          Noob here, what's alarcity and why is it so important?

          Comment


            #6
            Alacrity is a chance to reduce your cooldowns by two seconds, no matter if you play mage, bh or warrior.
            Attacks can trigger it, up to 30% if your ability rate is at 50%.
            Action-RPG-History: Diablo, Diablo2, Diablo3 ... Eternium

            Silver2: #33 Mage (Nancy) TL129
            Gold2: #20 Mage (Nancy) TL131
            Bronze3: #1 BH (Nancy) TL143
            Season1: #7 Warrior (Dekay) TL153

            Comment


              #7
              Well I never knew that about alacrity. Is that stated anywhere in the game? I am thankful I have 55% ability rate.

              Comment


                #8
                No, you won't find any explanation in the game.

                You have to read the game update notes:
                Hello guys, these are the changes made to the game between versions 1.2.49 and 1.2.65. Bug fixes Fixed a bug causing Battle Rage to wrongly provide the


                Alacrity is extremely important for every class.
                Using your utilitys more often increases your dps massively.
                Whirlwind not beeing able to proc Alacrity during its 4 second duration therefore is a major drawback and should be improved in a way Arionthe suggested.
                Action-RPG-History: Diablo, Diablo2, Diablo3 ... Eternium

                Silver2: #33 Mage (Nancy) TL129
                Gold2: #20 Mage (Nancy) TL131
                Bronze3: #1 BH (Nancy) TL143
                Season1: #7 Warrior (Dekay) TL153

                Comment


                  #9
                  Very interesting, thanks for the info!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Pedroloco View Post
                    Very interesting, thanks for the info!
                    Arionthe always has very interesting insights and great suggestions. If it was up to me, I'd include him in dev team

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by ShotDead View Post

                      Arionthe always has very interesting insights and great suggestions. If it was up to me, I'd include him in dev team
                      Stop, you are giving me a big head.. appreciate the sentiment.
                      GAQO KITO REZO 1934

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I agree on both Alacrity trigger and the ability to cast during WW.

                        I can also live with the current but maybe we can treat it as "channeling" where it increases damage from the time of cast like Frost Beam?
                        And the Rune of Storm proc, it should proc, I have not checked if it really doesn't proc as what Radz observed.
                        Retired Mobile Player

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I've just started my warrior as a DW, and up to now WW has been my major secondary attack, that and devastate. However after reading the post by Arionthe, I may have to revise my strategy. Fortunately it's still effective at my present level of T90. But I want to prepare for higher levels. Am currently using RS and Frenzy, WW, and Devastate. I was using ITZ, but didn't see it being very effective so I just changed that to SW. My passive abilities are Duelist and Lightening reflexes (only have 2 slots, warrior is a non-ANB hero, 3rd slot too expensive), and all of my abilities are presently at L8 or L7. My weapons are DR and Sanguinarius, both legendary with damage ranges of about 1220- 1530. All gear is legendary Jugg, some good some . . meh, and a legendary IM!

                          Here are my stats.
                          Click image for larger version

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                          So question to advisors with more experience, what would you do in my shoes to advance on LB with my boy?
                          I was toying with idea of making warrior a gold miner, but after spending almost 200 gems trying to change one gear stat to gold, I abandoned that idea. Will either need to specifically craft gold gear, or just wait for lucky drops.

                          I look forward to all of your words of wisdom, as well as a few smarta$$ responses

                          Comment


                            #14
                            RockDoc Healing for DW bleed comes mostly from Shockwave's HP based heal (2 charges of 60% over 6secs... or 120% over 6secs). So you can stick with base LoH plus perhaps the chest piece enchant. Like all builds nowadays, you want massive CDR (skill cool down reduction). This means you probably want a BASE AR of 1500 plus a good IM. As DW Bleed, it's all about GW triggers fueling the shockwave finisher. So you want the blood sword weapon set and high crit % and high CD %. Rest you just fill in where you can. I'm personally partial to the w2j4 setup. But currently w6 is the champ for highest TL. You want CR and CD everywhere. You want AR in most places. You want enough vit to carry you. You want probably close to the haste you currently have. skill rotation: charge, sw, devastate, sw, if at this point your last sw is a crit, then you probably want to follow up with sw again. If not, repeat that skill rotation.
                            GAQO KITO REZO 1934

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Arionthe thank you for your input. I have both vampiric swords, was using DR because it's damage was about 10% higher than Visceria, and I thought that would offset the extra bleed time. Looks like I need to increase my AR, a lot. I've got IM with ok P and V, good CD and H, and 29% for 95AR. Only one I have better is celestial on one of my BHs, but I'm always looking for better.

                              I'm playing Jug because that is what I've gotten with my gear drops. I thought about that 4:2 split, saw a couple of warriors on LB with it. I have 3 pieces of WarLord gear that I could combine with Jug. I also have a full legendary Blackguards weapon set, but wanted to try DW instead of SW. Maybe I'll try full Jug, then 4:2 J:WL, and then swap weapon sets to see which works best with my play style.

                              I'll also give that rotation a try. Come to realize you can be either very effective or ineffective, depending on whether you have proper rotation of abilities. You can either enhance effect with proper rotation or nerf them with poor rotation.

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