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  • Its clear the developers don't care

    They think you're sheep to be fleeced.

    Same 'mistakes' yet again. Seriously doubt they're mistakes anymore.

    Same mushroom treatment for the player base with AWOL efforts after launch.

    Watch ads, make them money.

    Buy event packages make them moeny to compete with botters that make them money.

    ​​​​​​


  • #2
    I believe that some folks share the opinion that the owners do not care. There does seem to be a large number of folks who believe that the owners do listen and respond as they are able. Mistakes will happen and must be corrected. Planned changes to the system which are done simply to increase revenue would have no reason for removal.

    As previously posted there are many ways that the owners could increase their revenue stream, but they have chosen not to do so.

    (I have few expectations, so I am often surprised by improvements.)

    Comment


    • #3
      Travis mentioned that they would be working on bug fixes when they came in on Monday. I'd say its too soon to write them off...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ozymandius View Post
        Travis mentioned that they would be working on bug fixes when they came in on Monday. I'd say its too soon to write them off...
        Couple comments: first I don't think it's that the "owners" (Making Fun?) don't care. I've worked on bugfix before and with a large body of code (I assure you that is the case with Eternium and it's support s/w) bugs are ALWAYS there. You can get rid of one and have a similar bug pop up b/c some idiot changed a line of code w/o knowing the true impact. I've done it myself. New features means new bugs or old bugs returning.

        Bugs: Like the one that bites me in the bum every ANB - Here are 4. One old, three new ones.
        1. My TL gets reset to 7 and I need to spend (waste) time getting back to previous level. Happened twice yesterday (have 3 accts). Cost me around 1/2 hr. to get back. I'm on Chromebook and beta and Google Play store as a source. [*=1]
        2. I had TBD sticking out of a wall yesterday and at the same time...
        3. None of my abilities (<, >, ^) worked. Had to proceed with just 1 and 2 fingers. Reloaded and all was well.
        4. The LB is a mixture of ANB + existing heroes. That worked before.

        As to "ownership" (correct me if I'm wrong) but it's Making Fun that markets the game and Travis is a part of that. Dream Primer actually codes, develops and tests the product we all play - Adrian and Red are members of that org. They obviously all talk to each other. But, they are smaller than Microsoft or Apple by orders of magnitude.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by TerryDarc; 08-12-2019, 05:21 PM.
        FEYI FAJU BESE 4881

        Enthusiastic but inept player. Computer programmer and world traveler.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TerryDarc View Post
          As to "ownership" (correct me if I'm wrong) but it's Making Fun that markets the game and Travis is a part of that. Dream Primer actually codes, develops and tests the product we all play - Adrian and Red are members of that org. They obviously all talk to each other. But, they are smaller than Microsoft or Apple by orders of magnitude.
          Sorry, if I misused the term owners. I use it to mean "that group" that are always referred to as "not doing anything" or "not caring". (In some cases, the onus is on those who write the code and in others it is on those who administer the product. Most comments here do not reach that level of granularity.)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by lmcelhiney View Post

            Sorry, if I misused the term owners. I use it to mean "that group" that are always referred to as "not doing anything" or "not caring". (In some cases, the onus is on those who write the code and in others it is on those who administer the product. Most comments here do not reach that level of granularity.)
            Yeah, I understand. I have sympathy for DP/MF and how hard it is sometimes to do what users will perceive as a "good job". No offense taken nor given and I was just trying to be a little more precise in talking about the problem. The DP/MF cabal have had some tough moments with plenty of criticism lately. I love the game and would like to see it made better with users working together to write good bug reports (you can't believe how important that is) and DP/MF being responsive. It's a tough row to hoe lemme tell ya.
            FEYI FAJU BESE 4881

            Enthusiastic but inept player. Computer programmer and world traveler.

            Comment


            • #7
              If the top 500 of every leaderboard was people with 4K CL doing T200 and DP/MF never did or said anything about it then we would call them 'Blizzard' instead.
              Mainly Mobile, Mainly Mage
              Teran - CL2000

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TerryDarc View Post

                Couple comments: first I don't think it's that the "owners" (Making Fun?) don't care. I've worked on bugfix before and with a large body of code (I assure you that is the case with Eternium and it's support s/w) bugs are ALWAYS there. You can get rid of one and have a similar bug pop up b/c some idiot changed a line of code w/o knowing the true impact. I've done it myself. New features means new bugs or old bugs returning.

                Bugs: Like the one that bites me in the bum every ANB - Here are 4. One old, three new ones.
                1. My TL gets reset to 7 and I need to spend (waste) time getting back to previous level. Happened twice yesterday (have 3 accts). Cost me around 1/2 hr. to get back. I'm on Chromebook and beta and Google Play store as a source. [*=1]
                2. I had TBD sticking out of a wall yesterday and at the same time...
                3. None of my abilities (<, >, ^) worked. Had to proceed with just 1 and 2 fingers. Reloaded and all was well.
                4. The LB is a mixture of ANB + existing heroes. That worked before.

                As to "ownership" (correct me if I'm wrong) but it's Making Fun that markets the game and Travis is a part of that. Dream Primer actually codes, develops and tests the product we all play - Adrian and Red are members of that org. They obviously all talk to each other. But, they are smaller than Microsoft or Apple by orders of magnitude.
                The first bug you mentioned is present on Android as well, I've gotten around it by just leaving the fame running in the background at all times. That's not something you can realistically do on pc but we'll just chalk that up as our one advantage over you guys
                Regalia mage: Fabi, TL 135 9:03
                Regalia mage: Tribulei, TL 140 9:30
                Stalker BH: Nique, TL 111 4:25
                Defender Warrior: Gutz, TL 123, 7:37

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TerryDarc View Post

                  I've worked on bugfix before and with a large body of code (I assure you that is the case with Eternium and it's support s/w) bugs are ALWAYS there.
                  This is not really the case any more. Its just that developers don't want to invest the time and energy into using the best technology. You had better hope the computers flying aeroplaces and driving large vehicles are close to bug free because they're proven correct. There are also carefully crafted and extremely large bodies of software that are free of bugs. The most famous is Knuth's Tex, written in 1978. Its bug free because (a) one of the worlds best programmers wrote it and (b) he offered a reward for each bug found, with the reward doubling for each one. And there are complex systems which are so heavily analysed, tested, and reviewed, such as Linux, which can be considered close to bug free.

                  There's a cost to developing quality software, primarily in the fees of developers which the expertise to write it. The reward for developing games that don't dominate the market are too small to make it cost effective. If you use rubbish tech like Java or C++ you're going to have bugs, if you use better tech, you're going to find it hard to find devs that know how to use it.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Yttrill View Post

                    This is not really the case any more. Its just that developers don't want to invest the time and energy into using the best technology. You had better hope the computers flying aeroplaces and driving large vehicles are close to bug free because they're proven correct. There are also carefully crafted and extremely large bodies of software that are free of bugs. The most famous is Knuth's Tex, written in 1978. Its bug free because (a) one of the worlds best programmers wrote it and (b) he offered a reward for each bug found, with the reward doubling for each one. And there are complex systems which are so heavily analysed, tested, and reviewed, such as Linux, which can be considered close to bug free.

                    There's a cost to developing quality software, primarily in the fees of developers which the expertise to write it. The reward for developing games that don't dominate the market are too small to make it cost effective. If you use rubbish tech like Java or C++ you're going to have bugs, if you use better tech, you're going to find it hard to find devs that know how to use it.

                    Horsefeathers! Software is never "free of bugs". I suspect that supporting E on multiple platforms - 4 at least - is a source of difficulty. Maybe a small dev staff contributes. Could be management issues. Devs may not speak the same language as the marketers. C++ and Java are "garbage"? They are just languages. Linux is just a name for a family of OS's upon which you would build things including gaming/video/graphics platforms. It comes in flavors. It makes me laugh to read sw reviews from the outside.

                    Knuth's bugfree code was IIRC 76 lines long.
                    FEYI FAJU BESE 4881

                    Enthusiastic but inept player. Computer programmer and world traveler.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Tend to agree with TerryDarc on this subject, as someone who grew up coding, actual assembly on Amigas the more code you write the greater the chance of a totally unexpected bug increases. Even with modern languages and tools to develop the scale of the coding in a game is huge and bugs will crop up.

                      The hardest thing about removing buggy code is that what would appear a simple patch or remove of the offending code often leads to much bigger or many more errors cropping up.

                      I've nothing but respect for people who code software with the intention of doing it for nothing or next to nothing, it's a thankless task.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TerryDarc View Post

                        Horsefeathers! Software is never "free of bugs". I suspect that supporting E on multiple platforms - 4 at least - is a source of difficulty. Maybe a small dev staff contributes. Could be management issues. Devs may not speak the same language as the marketers. C++ and Java are "garbage"? They are just languages. Linux is just a name for a family of OS's upon which you would build things including gaming/video/graphics platforms. It comes in flavors. It makes me laugh to read sw reviews from the outside.

                        Knuth's bugfree code was IIRC 76 lines long.
                        TeX is a lot longer than 76 lines :-)

                        Sorry but this is not from outside, i'm a software developer, in fact I helped design C++, so I know a bit about it. Its not good. Java is worse tho :-) And no, Linux i refer to is the kernel and there is exactly one (for each released version I mean). True, there's lots of stuff on top of the kernel you'd call an OS, including device drivers (which are often bugged). Supporting any software on multiple platforms is always an issue due to the need to work around bugs in them. I know, I have a developed a complete multiplatform programming language. Actually designed for games (among other applications). So I dare say I know a bit about this subject. Having been doing it for almost half a century. So I think the laugh may be on you :-)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Yttrill View Post

                          TeX is a lot longer than 76 lines :-)

                          Sorry but this is not from outside, i'm a software developer, in fact I helped design C++, so I know a bit about it. Its not good. Java is worse tho :-) And no, Linux i refer to is the kernel and there is exactly one (for each released version I mean). True, there's lots of stuff on top of the kernel you'd call an OS, including device drivers (which are often bugged). Supporting any software on multiple platforms is always an issue due to the need to work around bugs in them. I know, I have a developed a complete multiplatform programming language. Actually designed for games (among other applications). So I dare say I know a bit about this subject. Having been doing it for almost half a century. So I think the laugh may be on you :-)
                          I'd take Java over C++ any day for non-game, non-low-level development.
                          Mainly Mobile, Mainly Mage
                          Teran - CL2000

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Terranisaur View Post

                            I'd take Java over C++ any day for non-game, non-low-level development.
                            It has advantages, certainly. Probably if you work in an environment it is suitable then you should use Scala instead, since its Java compatible. Scala is not bad, given the constraints. Many systems actually use both, in particular Android uses a Linux kernel written in a restricted subset of C, but the application Api is Java. If you're doing apps on a Mac you have to use Swift, which is actually a decent language on replacing ObjC. If you're doing browser client software you have to use Javascript. If you stuck with performance and interfacing requirement that dictates C/C++ compat, then you probably should use the language I developed, Felix.

                            Games generally have to use whatever API is chosen to run the core engine, eg Unreal, to quote from their website: "Unreal is a pure C++ engine designed for high performance. Its advanced CPU/GPU profiling tools and flexible renderer equips developers to efficiently achieve quality VR experiences." No one these days develops games from scratch, so you have to build on top of something that provides multi-platform support. Gone are the days Doom, assembler for one platform, the PC, which owned the market.

                            But my point is also that the market dictates software quality. I've written bug free software in assembler, running embedded devices that controlled safety critical devices (lighting), and which were bolted to the walls of buildings, an environment where a bug leading to a product recall would probably break the vendor. Even more critical software like aviation control .. well Boeing found out what a design fault can cost (not a bug). In the free game environment that Eternium lives, software gets rushed out without much testing because no one is paying for it directly. You just let the clients test it and hope you've done a good enough job that you will retain and gain users that will buy in game speedups and/or watch ads.

                            Eternium, in my opinion, has great potential, but the devs have to be worried because for such a great game, the number of players is very small. So they're rushing out AnB, War Spoils, Season passes and other things to try to capture more income. And so there are bugs because of the rush. You can call it greed but there's a minimum number of people required to run this kind of product, and they all want their wages at the end of the day. So the problem is really that small companies just dont have the financial resources to take the time to build a user base and monetise their product later. IMHO of course.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Yttrill View Post

                              TeX is a lot longer than 76 lines :-)

                              Sorry but this is not from outside, i'm a software developer, in fact I helped design C++, so I know a bit about it. Its not good. Java is worse tho :-) And no, Linux i refer to is the kernel and there is exactly one (for each released version I mean). True, there's lots of stuff on top of the kernel you'd call an OS, including device drivers (which are often bugged). Supporting any software on multiple platforms is always an issue due to the need to work around bugs in them. I know, I have a developed a complete multiplatform programming language. Actually designed for games (among other applications). So I dare say I know a bit about this subject. Having been doing it for almost half a century. So I think the laugh may be on you :-)
                              And Tex is not the "perfect code" - that was a tiny piece of code. And I'm a coder too. I just don't consider people with a partial understanding of any complex system offering advice or opinions on the devs. Sugest you watch the promo video on the main menu. You may learn something.
                              FEYI FAJU BESE 4881

                              Enthusiastic but inept player. Computer programmer and world traveler.

                              Comment

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