Whirlwind occupies a special spot in the hierarchy of warrior skills. Among the active skills, it is the only mobbing centric skill, warrior's AOE. Sure there are other skills that do aoe damage such as charge and leap. But the damage from those are so pitiful, no viable build can be based on those. Charge is really a buff skill more than a damage skill. Shockwave is something entirely different. It is healing, finisher, damage reduction all rolled into one. It is a great skill, no question about it. However shockwave can't realize its potential all on its own. Besides it's the signature skill for the bleed build.
Whirlwind should be the signature skill for the warrior direct damage build. But if we go through an actual analysis of what it does, its failings are plain to see.
Damage Output (DPS)
Premise: AOE skill should outdamage single target skill especially against a mob. There is a question on what is that proper tipping point. We can get a sense of that by looking at two normal attacks.
Assumptions: Attack speed 9 attacks per second (with frenzy 30% AS and archers buff), 1500% critical damage (this is easily achievable now with lv75 gear), 60% crit rate (very very obtainable with constant charge buff)
Frenzy is clearly a single target skill. At max level, 580% per hit with 25% chance to strike twice. This translates to 11.25 attacks per second. At 580% * 11.25 = 6525% per second.
Cleave is clearly an AOE skill. At max level, 350% per hit to multiple targets in front of the warrior. 350% * 9 = 3150% per second.
So Cleave will output more overall damage than frenzy when the targets is slightly more than 2. Now personally I prefer to see a ratio closer to 4. But at least here is a data point using existing attack skill in game.
Let's turn our attention to whirlwind and devastate, and see what that ratio is, meaning how large the mob needs to be in order for whirlwind to output more damage than devastate.
Whirlwind max level 900% * 1.25 when DW. So let's call it 1125%.
Devastate max level 6000% per hit for 13 hits over 1.2secs. This translates to about 10.833 attacks per second. But a key element that's missing here is that devastate is buff'd by flurry, a passive buff that effectively doubles the devastate/deadly throw damage and increases crit damage by 400% at 10/max stack. It's actually quite easy to maintain the 10/max flurry stack before all devastate cast. In fact the flurry empowered devastate is the standard operating procedure for any LB aspiring DW.
Since flurry passive has an impact on CD, we need to include its effect in a proper comparison.
So WW sits at 1125% * 9 attacks = 10125% per second per target. Critical damage multiplier at 1500% CD * 60% crit rate = 900% + 40% = 904%. Combined it yields 91,530% per second per target.
Devastate hits for 12000% * 10.833 attacks = 1299996% or let's just call it 130000% per second on a single target. Critical damage multiplier at 1900% (400% flurry CD bonus) * 60% crit rate = 1140% + 40% = 1180%. Combined it yields 1,534,000% per second.
So the ratio = 1,534,000% / 91,530% = 16.76.
Wow, so WW needs to be hitting almost 17 targets at the same time in order to output the same damage as devastate compared at Cleave needing to hit just above 2 targets to match frenzy.
Can you say something is amiss here?
I don't know about you, but 17 targets concurrently is a fairy tale.
So in conclusion, WW damage needs to be scaled up very significantly in order for it to hold its own against devastate especially at higher TLs.
Quote Jose Sarmento "Devastate outdamages warrior aoe skills" Now I give you the numbers to back his quote.
Suggestion: Allow WW to also benefit from the flurry passive just like devastate and dt. This way, the ratio between WW and devastate becomes 6.4 vs 16.76. 6.4 is still too high a ratio in my mind, but at least it gets a little closer.
Defense (Damage reduction and recovery)
I will begin with another quote from a well known warrior player. orion_134 "WW gets me killed more than anything else"
To maximize WW's potential, one needs to round up as many targets as one can sustain. However WW offers pitiful bonus on the defensive front, making the skill more of a death trap than world beater. Basically for a DW, WW gets about 30% DR (15% per weapon equipped). On the other-hand, devastate offers 75% DR during its animation. Additionally, although I don't have any hard data, the fact devastate animation makes the warrior quickly jumping around probably allows it to avoid some hits entirely. Does WW avoid any hits? not at all. With its sucking mechanic (which is extremely useful btw for mobbing), one can't get away from any danger during its animation. Hence devastate works almost like a get out of jail card, healing the warrior with its quick hitting LoH while outputting godly damage. While WW'ing, one is praying to god that please please dont get me killed.
WW as a mobbing skill surrounds the player with more targets. This also opens up the player to more incoming hits that the player can't get away from. The current highest mobile shield warrior has trouble making WW work at TL138/139. How do you think WW's defensive characteristics will fare at a TL that's 13-15 higher?
I will save you the suspense. Your chance of surviving with WW at TL 150+ is: zero, zilch, nada. Even worse for DW since DW doesn't have a shield/blocking to fall back to.
It's unfortunate such a mobile friendly skill has zero practical use at peak TLs for neither DW and SW.
WW offers far lower DR than devastate while granting no extra bonus such as stun immunity and healing debuff to targets. It's a skill that's basically designed to have no success at peak trial.
Suggestion: Increase WW DR to 30% per equipped weapon. This will get WW to 60% DR. Still less than devastate's 75% DR. So we can't just stop here. Also increase healing effects from all sources by 100% during WW animation. This means life regeneration, LoH, Shockwave healing, apple, potion, and anything else that heals. WW needs the increased sustain to be usable at peak trials.
Of course both devastate and WW suffers from no alacrity during its animation. So it goes without saying that's also a deal breaker at peak trials (devastate can manage alacrity issue better due to the 1.2 sec animation). Just take a look at the warrior LB, I challenge anyone to find WW within 15TLs of the top position.
In conclusion, WW is a signature skill. Would be a waste to see it as nothing more than a farming tool at tl100
Whirlwind should be the signature skill for the warrior direct damage build. But if we go through an actual analysis of what it does, its failings are plain to see.
Damage Output (DPS)
Premise: AOE skill should outdamage single target skill especially against a mob. There is a question on what is that proper tipping point. We can get a sense of that by looking at two normal attacks.
Assumptions: Attack speed 9 attacks per second (with frenzy 30% AS and archers buff), 1500% critical damage (this is easily achievable now with lv75 gear), 60% crit rate (very very obtainable with constant charge buff)
Frenzy is clearly a single target skill. At max level, 580% per hit with 25% chance to strike twice. This translates to 11.25 attacks per second. At 580% * 11.25 = 6525% per second.
Cleave is clearly an AOE skill. At max level, 350% per hit to multiple targets in front of the warrior. 350% * 9 = 3150% per second.
So Cleave will output more overall damage than frenzy when the targets is slightly more than 2. Now personally I prefer to see a ratio closer to 4. But at least here is a data point using existing attack skill in game.
Let's turn our attention to whirlwind and devastate, and see what that ratio is, meaning how large the mob needs to be in order for whirlwind to output more damage than devastate.
Whirlwind max level 900% * 1.25 when DW. So let's call it 1125%.
Devastate max level 6000% per hit for 13 hits over 1.2secs. This translates to about 10.833 attacks per second. But a key element that's missing here is that devastate is buff'd by flurry, a passive buff that effectively doubles the devastate/deadly throw damage and increases crit damage by 400% at 10/max stack. It's actually quite easy to maintain the 10/max flurry stack before all devastate cast. In fact the flurry empowered devastate is the standard operating procedure for any LB aspiring DW.
Since flurry passive has an impact on CD, we need to include its effect in a proper comparison.
So WW sits at 1125% * 9 attacks = 10125% per second per target. Critical damage multiplier at 1500% CD * 60% crit rate = 900% + 40% = 904%. Combined it yields 91,530% per second per target.
Devastate hits for 12000% * 10.833 attacks = 1299996% or let's just call it 130000% per second on a single target. Critical damage multiplier at 1900% (400% flurry CD bonus) * 60% crit rate = 1140% + 40% = 1180%. Combined it yields 1,534,000% per second.
So the ratio = 1,534,000% / 91,530% = 16.76.
Wow, so WW needs to be hitting almost 17 targets at the same time in order to output the same damage as devastate compared at Cleave needing to hit just above 2 targets to match frenzy.
Can you say something is amiss here?
I don't know about you, but 17 targets concurrently is a fairy tale.
So in conclusion, WW damage needs to be scaled up very significantly in order for it to hold its own against devastate especially at higher TLs.
Quote Jose Sarmento "Devastate outdamages warrior aoe skills" Now I give you the numbers to back his quote.
Suggestion: Allow WW to also benefit from the flurry passive just like devastate and dt. This way, the ratio between WW and devastate becomes 6.4 vs 16.76. 6.4 is still too high a ratio in my mind, but at least it gets a little closer.
Defense (Damage reduction and recovery)
I will begin with another quote from a well known warrior player. orion_134 "WW gets me killed more than anything else"
To maximize WW's potential, one needs to round up as many targets as one can sustain. However WW offers pitiful bonus on the defensive front, making the skill more of a death trap than world beater. Basically for a DW, WW gets about 30% DR (15% per weapon equipped). On the other-hand, devastate offers 75% DR during its animation. Additionally, although I don't have any hard data, the fact devastate animation makes the warrior quickly jumping around probably allows it to avoid some hits entirely. Does WW avoid any hits? not at all. With its sucking mechanic (which is extremely useful btw for mobbing), one can't get away from any danger during its animation. Hence devastate works almost like a get out of jail card, healing the warrior with its quick hitting LoH while outputting godly damage. While WW'ing, one is praying to god that please please dont get me killed.
WW as a mobbing skill surrounds the player with more targets. This also opens up the player to more incoming hits that the player can't get away from. The current highest mobile shield warrior has trouble making WW work at TL138/139. How do you think WW's defensive characteristics will fare at a TL that's 13-15 higher?
I will save you the suspense. Your chance of surviving with WW at TL 150+ is: zero, zilch, nada. Even worse for DW since DW doesn't have a shield/blocking to fall back to.
It's unfortunate such a mobile friendly skill has zero practical use at peak TLs for neither DW and SW.
WW offers far lower DR than devastate while granting no extra bonus such as stun immunity and healing debuff to targets. It's a skill that's basically designed to have no success at peak trial.
Suggestion: Increase WW DR to 30% per equipped weapon. This will get WW to 60% DR. Still less than devastate's 75% DR. So we can't just stop here. Also increase healing effects from all sources by 100% during WW animation. This means life regeneration, LoH, Shockwave healing, apple, potion, and anything else that heals. WW needs the increased sustain to be usable at peak trials.
Of course both devastate and WW suffers from no alacrity during its animation. So it goes without saying that's also a deal breaker at peak trials (devastate can manage alacrity issue better due to the 1.2 sec animation). Just take a look at the warrior LB, I challenge anyone to find WW within 15TLs of the top position.
In conclusion, WW is a signature skill. Would be a waste to see it as nothing more than a farming tool at tl100
). By the way where is our friend? Why he is so quiet all of a sudden? A cat got his tongue is it?
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