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  • Percentage Rank Medals

    I haven't played since medals were introduced and while the leader board always taunted me (ie no way will I catch up to CL2000+ ever) I always felt kind of nice running TL100+ and being in "top 5%".

    But now in addition to never catching up with VL2000k folks, I have medal stats I'll never catch up to. It seems weird that I'd play a game, off and on, for an hour or so a day for *years* and never have a chance at medals. I'll be honest, if I hadn't lost my Switch on my last work trip I wouldn't even have come back to this.

    Tldr: fixed numbers for seasons doesn't scale. The more players you have the fewer will ever attain a medal, so unless you're hoping this game doesn't grow maybe plan things for scale and longevity (CL shouldn't ever have just accumulated forever). I know the devs are super dedicated but your mechanics literally communicate that you don't want the game to grow in a fair and competitve manner.

  • #2
    SImilar to "grading on the curve" , it seems!

    Comment


    • #3
      I have posted a few times that giving away one medal to just about everyone would be a good idea so they can feel good. Having the fixed number of medal earners is also slightly odd, but they tweak it here and there so it sort of is percentage based, we just don't see it. I think if you get 'into' the game enough and start participating in the forums and discord, asking for advice and copying the top builds, buying and spending gems etc., getting medals will not be that hard.
      Mainly Mobile, Mainly Mage
      Teran - CL2000

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      • #4
        Well, yes, it is for some of us. But it is clear that the awards are issued for merit and you must be very committed and skillful to achieve some levels of reward.

        (Even the "alternate rules" players have to be very committed and skillful.)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by hp9000 View Post
          fixed numbers for seasons doesn't scale. The more players you have the fewer will ever attain a medal.
          I've been thinking the same thing as this leaderboard thing has continued to drag on and even those who should have already earned medals have become more frazzled. Percentages would scale and provide new players more of an opportunity to compete while still feeling like an accomplishment. After about 2 months of regular play I've finally cleared TL100 and have hit the top 5% but there's no way I'd push myself to make the top 500 or higher, especially as the season has stretched. I'm just looking forward to that end of season gem bonus and the start of the next ANB so I can finally unlock some complete characters.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lmcelhiney View Post
            "alternate rules"
            LMAO! You've got some powerful euphemism there.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Terranisaur View Post
              I think if you get 'into' the game enough and start participating in the forums and discord, asking for advice and copying the top builds, buying and spending gems etc., getting medals will not be that hard.
              It depends how you define "get into the game." Playing 1-2 hours a day is already a lot for me and I'm not going to play more, or even daily over time. And while I don't expect to make the top charts with that commitment, it is still a nontrivial amount of time to waste in a game whose top tiers will forever be out of reach until more seasoned players grow bored and drop off. I don't expect to be handed a prize but I can do the math and see that there's no way to play or pay my way into top tier against folks with all celestial and medals granted from past events. I enjoy the game enough to have returned to playing and posting here but at some point it'll again be unsatisfying to invest time or money in a no-win situation.

              It's obv popular and has continued to improve but it's clear the model is broken at scale. Imagine a million people joined next month and ask yourself how would they catch up, how hard would it be to rank in even the top 500? Maybe a few thousand committed players is enough to pay the rent but if they want to grow they'll need to offer others the possibility of topping leader boards without having to step into a time machine to be competitive.
              Last edited by hp9000; 10-10-2019, 12:16 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by hp9000 View Post

                It's obv popular and has continued to improve but it's clear the model is broken at scale. Imagine a million people joined next month and ask yourself how would they catch up, how hard would it be to rank in even the top 500? Maybe a few thousand committed players is enough to pay the rent but if they want to grow they'll need to offer others the possibility of topping leader boards without having to step into a time machine to be competitive.
                I would be surprised if there are more than 50K players currently participating in Eternium. There are only roughly 302K ranked heroes in the Season 1 leaderboard. Heroes are not removed from the leaderboard when they are deleted. I am personally probably responsible for several hundred heroes currently showing on the leaderboards with all the heroes that I have created and deleted for testing purposes. They are giving rewards to the top 1500 players for Season 1 as they are giving rewards to the Top 500 for each of the three classes and you will only receive one reward for your best ranking. This means that the top 3% of players will be getting additional rewards at season's end. There should be a lot of movement in leaderboard rankings once the event closes from duplicate heroes being removed along with alternate rules players.

                The non-rank based rewards given during Season 1 help you to level up a hero fairly quickly. Getting a hero to CL 2000 over a period of three months is not impossible and is relatively doable without playing 10 hours a day. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that getting a hero to CLs that allow for a Top 500 ranking will take less than 100 hours of game time and I believe that the 100 hours is being overly generous. Yes, if someone only plays 15 minutes at a time for 3 or 4 days a week then they will be very challenged to rank a reward. However, the question becomes what would be considered a reasonable time outlay to play competitively in the game versus just passing time for enjoyment. Yes, the Top 500 rewards cater to the competitive player and not the recreational player.

                There are already lots of participation rewards being given as part of Season 1 that do not require even ranking at all. We receive rewards every time we increase our Season Level and these rewards are quite beneficial, especially to the casual player.

                Advancing levels does not have to take long time or an excessive amount of effort if one takes advantage of the wealth of information the community offers and avoid pitfalls that just cause you to waste time and energy.

                There are players that have joined in the last 30-60 days that are currently in the Top 100 for Season 1. There are even more relatively new players that are in the Top 500. One of your basic assumptions is wrong. Champion Levels do not "just accumulate forever." The functional limit for Cls right now is around 2350. The functional limit was around 2100 six months ago until they added new features and rebalanced the heroes. You don't need to have CL 2350 to be Top 500. Even CL 2000 is not a "requirement" for Top 500 though it definitely makes it easier. The anecdotal evidence is that advancing from CL 2000 to CL 2350 takes more effort that taking a new hero up to CL 2000 and is much more boring as it is grinding at its best.

                The key take away for events if they word "competitive". More often than not a player that spends 4 hours a day competing will have a distinct advantage over a player spending 15 minutes a day and that holds true for most things and not just Eternium.

                Yes, percentage base rewards would scale better but they would also cause lots of problems. Players already get frustrated waiting for the ranking based rewards after an event ends when the developers only have to look at the top of the leaderboards to filter out problem heroes. Imagine the time and effort that would be involved if the developers have to examine all 302K ranked heroes to determine which should stay or be removed in order to apply a percentage in order to grant the percentage based rewards. I dread to think how long that process would take.

                Just my thoughts and they are only mine.



                Regalia: Tinman, Unranked
                Defender: Zeke, Unranked
                Regalia: Cali, Unranked
                Defender: Samantha, Unranked
                Assault: Elmer, TL 86 1:57

                Dyoma Crown: 86

                WOOHOO!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for that info. I will mostly concede my arguments now. I did not know the CLs were capped, that's promising. I also didn't realized the "top 500" season reward was by class vs all players. And, lastly, if your math is right I'll agree that 100 hours is totally fair to make a top leader board rank. I expect a decent game to require 100-200 hours to triumph in some way.

                  But I still feel that the accumulation and persistence of prior achievements puts new and casual players at a disadvantage. Speaking from recent personal experience I picked up this game again a few days before the season was, supposedly, ending and my maxed CL960 warrior completed all 20 levels over 3 days of indulgent, vacation-time play. That experience alone caused me to appreciate that if I had that sort of advantage, what must others have more advanced than me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MarkHark View Post

                    LMAO! You've got some powerful euphemism there.
                    Thanks! Well, my mother always told me, "If you cannot say something nice, don't say anything at all." "alternate rules" seems to be an accurate euphemism.

                    Comment


                    • MarkHark
                      MarkHark commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I would say your wise lady gave you some pretty solid advice there

                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Tin Man View Post
                    The key take away for events is they word "competitive".
                    Overall, active players seem to fall into two main categories: competitive and recreational. Confusion sometimes happens here when players from one "group" comment on the thread of another.
                    (Not wrong, as there are no rules or procedure which defines this.)

                    Sometimes, the message poster's rank (i.e., number of posts) help you to understand their category and in other cases, someone with many months or years of Eternium experience is just making their first posts on Discord or this forum.

                    The desires and expectations of a competitive player are different than those of a recreational player. (Of course, "everyone" would like to have achievement medals and special enhancement rewards, but some do not expect that these will be forthcoming.) If you are a competitive player, you are probably much more sensitive to the Leaderboard ranking and medals as a mark of your success. I think that recreational players are most often surprised and pleased by their progress and rewards.

                    Both groups have dissatisfaction with events over the past few months, as the ranking/rewards system has been affected and the playability has been affected.

                    I sense the frustration for us all and hope that within a few weeks this will all be in the back part of our memories.

                    Now, if they could just give out a series of medals for "Personal Best", I would be happy. (I'd get one every time I played!)

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by hp9000 View Post

                      It depends how you define "get into the game." Playing 1-2 hours a day is already a lot for me and I'm not going to play more, or even daily over time. And while I don't expect to make the top charts with that commitment, it is still a nontrivial amount of time to waste in a game whose top tiers will forever be out of reach until more seasoned players grow bored and drop off. I don't expect to be handed a prize but I can do the math and see that there's no way to play or pay my way into top tier against folks with all celestial and medals granted from past events. I enjoy the game enough to have returned to playing and posting here but at some point it'll again be unsatisfying to invest time or money in a no-win situation.

                      It's obv popular and has continued to improve but it's clear the model is broken at scale. Imagine a million people joined next month and ask yourself how would they catch up, how hard would it be to rank in even the top 500? Maybe a few thousand committed players is enough to pay the rent but if they want to grow they'll need to offer others the possibility of topping leader boards without having to step into a time machine to be competitive.
                      1-2 hours a day is way more than enough, at this point if you decide you want to get a higher rank you should focus on what you're doing, not how long you are doing it. If you ever do decide you want to take a more serious attitude (different than pure play time), there are plenty of people that are more than willing to help; in fact, they really like it! I would post some questions on the forum about your character, item, current trial level etc. to get help pushing higher. I would also post about what you are doing for farming currently, and if there are any better solutions. Watch some videos too, if you can find any.
                      That's what I did a few months ago and it's made a huge difference. I started a year ago, and I've played an average of about 10-15 minutes per day and I'm finishing near the top of the leaderboards for season / events. (I did farm like a mad man at the start of the season to get some lvl 75s ). For ANB you will need gems, make sure to do the dailies on 5 characters, and watch some ads for gems, and/or purchase the gems/day every month. For season you don't even need gems, just get the right gear and farm Morgenheim/Trials. I used the forums and discord frequently to figure out exactly what to do and how to spend my time. You will be surprised at all of the little tricks there are to learn!
                      I will say that playing on a PC makes a huge difference, if you ever have the opportunity, give it a shot!

                      Mainly Mobile, Mainly Mage
                      Teran - CL2000

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Even using an iPhone or iPad can work.

                        There a plenty folks who can give you hints on the Mobile platforms. Remember, there are only 25 hours in each day - use them all effectively to play Eternium! (Sleep is not an option...)

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by hp9000 View Post
                          Thanks for that info. I will mostly concede my arguments now. I did not know the CLs were capped, that's promising. I also didn't realized the "top 500" season reward was by class vs all players. And, lastly, if your math is right I'll agree that 100 hours is totally fair to make a top leader board rank. I expect a decent game to require 100-200 hours to triumph in some way.
                          I will admit that I used some fuzzy math to determine the "100 hours" which is also referencing actual game time and not real time. I used Bronze ANBs as my basis which gives you 12 hours of play along with a built in 50% experience boost. Running 200% Experience Boosters through the entire event along with the built in 50% boost allows you to get to CL 2000 reasonably easy during the 12 hour event. My fuzzy math was to multiple that 18 hours by a factor of five to back out all the boosters and I also added an additional 40 hours for a buffer.

                          There are consistently CL 2000+ heroes during the time limited ANB events. Keep focused on what your goals are and don't waste resources and reaching higher CLs is just a matter of putting in the time.

                          There is no denying that having a higher CL as well as a better library of gear give a player an advantage. That advantage is not insurmountable though.

                          Have fun gaming.
                          Last edited by Tin Man; 10-11-2019, 01:58 AM.
                          Regalia: Tinman, Unranked
                          Defender: Zeke, Unranked
                          Regalia: Cali, Unranked
                          Defender: Samantha, Unranked
                          Assault: Elmer, TL 86 1:57

                          Dyoma Crown: 86

                          WOOHOO!

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Tin Man, I think top players assume everyone can be as good as they are if they just try, but that isn't the case. I'm a decent player who has been playing for a couple years, places between 100-200 in each event and was around 220 in the season, and I have yet to hit CL2000. So no, it isn't relatively easy to do. And yes, the advantage is insurmountable. Just take the difference between level 73 and level 70 gear, throw in 200 CL and you are talking a 20% advantage (admittedly a WAG). Make it celestial lvl 75's, 300 CL and medals and it is even bigger. No way a newbie overcomes that unless they are a prodigy, which apparently you are. Just don't assume everyone is like you.

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