Damage boost for not stacking Minions

[Morgan Davies]

Constantly thinking of ways to break up the cookie cutter BH build of 3 x Maggie, Smoke Screen, and Rapid Fire.

Very few BH's take Mag trap because the defensive side to Smoke Screen that DRASTICALLY increases how easy boss fights are. How come an easier build to kill bosses with is also highest damage build? Is it because it takes more skill to clear the trash with 3x maggie and Smoke Screen compared to mag trap and 3 random minions?

I'm mostly talking about being able to defeat high level Kara. Having that much dodge for that boss changes the fight in almost an unfair way.

Its been in my experience that higher damage builds are supposed to require more skill to play, yet when you have smoke screen on a boss, it is not only the highest damage spec but also makes bosses easier.

The Achilles heel to Smoke Screen being viable is the ability to handle huge trash pulls with it in order to get to the boss and make the boss fight a joke. The only way you pull huge trash packs with smoke screen is with 3x Maggie/Eileen.

I understand you guys make money when people spend gems in ANB to stack minions, but do you think you could consider a damage penalty for stacking the same minion or a damage boost for each different minion used? I feel like it could bring more of a variety to what type of specs you see at the top.


Also Rapid Fire...most boring ability next to smoke screen in the game >.> No excitement, no BOOM factor, no nothing, you just hit it because you know it provides some damage increases that are good for your other stuff....OIE. Shouldn't that just be a passive ability?

[Shade Glow]

A damage penalty or damage bonus based on how many of a certain type of companion you're using would not enhance build variety. It would only limit it further.

[Ozymandius]

No one uses Magnetic Trap for a high level Stalker BH because it is completely useless in boss fights. However, like you said, it takes more skill to use the Vortex from healers to round up mobs, so I typically recommend the Mag. Trap option for beginning BHs. I have seen a few Mag Trap BHs in ANB leaderboards, but at the most competitive levels you really need the damage boosts from both Rapid Fire and Smokescreen.

FYI, both of my Stalker BHs are currently plateaued around TL130 because I haven't completely mastered how to get the most out of the SS, RF, Snipe build yet. I have more sheet damage than players who are higher up on the leaderboard, but I tend to run out of time around trial 130, even though I have two level 77 Celestial Shadow Assassin pistols in one account along with Level 77 pants and boots with move speed, a level 77 IM, and a BoM with 69% Snipe booster. I will most likely craft jewelry to boost AR next season to see if that makes a difference.

[Morgan Davies]

Not useless, less powerful than smoke screen. The entire post was about bringing abilities closer together so there was viable top end builds.

Mag trap works on literally every boss btw. Literally every single boss triggers the trap and at least does damage, including these other cool uses:

1. Magroth - Can be used to move Mag away from you, which as a BH gives you more time to, ya know, SHOOT the boss instead of running/kiting. Properly timing this can give you a considerable more amount of time DPS'n Mag as apposed to gaining distance.

2. TBD - Again this can be used to MOVE the boss, and instead of just a slow this time, it actually functions more like vortex does and "ports" him short distances. This can be very handy if you forget to spawn TBD in a good spot or you are becoming overrun with fire patches and want to just move him back! BUT MOST OF ALL, IT INTERRUPTS HIS ABILITIES, not only delaying his next cast of overrun but in turn giving you more DPS time just chilling in the same spot.

3. Elban - Minor slowing capabilities, but just like TBD will port him short distances away, far enough away in fact to be out of melee range. Good stuff if you ask me. Save a charge of Mag trap for if you get low and you're good to go.

4. Garn - Does damage >.< No real utility

5. Kara - She will trigger the mag traps and pull in her adds which interrupt their cast. HUGE in higher TLs when you can't just murder her adds real quick.


Tired of people saying Mag trap is useless when they have no clue. The potential is there for mag trap, especially with the 500% dmg bracers. I'm posting this thread because it is so close to being a competitor for a top spec and I would love to see some more changes before the next season to try and break up cookie cutter builds that use horrifically boring abilities.

[LodWig]

Did a TL 154 this season (rank #32 last time I looked) with a Mag Trap Stalker build. Also, ranked #16 in Gold #6 with it. Mobile playing only.

[Ozymandius]

O.K., so "useless" may have been a bit of an overstatement. I agree that Mag Trap does a nice job locking down Kara's minions, however, all of the benefits that you assign to Mag Trap also work with Vortex. Your post asked the question, " Is it because it takes more skill to clear the trash with 3x maggie and Smoke Screen compared to mag trap and 3 random minions?" I simply tried to answer the question, which your title suggested was your main point.

However, my position does not come from "having no clue" as your follow-up post suggests. It's more from the frustration of trying to make the Havoc BH build more competitive. And yes, I have tried using a BoM with 457% Mag Trap damage boost, and I have tried using Trapper's Belt and just about every other gear option. The fact that the leaderboard is stacked with nearly identical "cookie cutter" Stalker BH builds is not just a coincidence. There is currently nothing in the BH armory that can compete with the DOT from Snipe, especially from the automatic Snipe procs. Increasing AOE from Explosive Shot and adding Sticky Bombs were steps in the right direction, but both are still underpowered compared to Snipe DOT.

I wholeheartedly agree that buffing Magnetic Trap would be an excellent way to create some different builds on the leaderboard. I would also support increasing the damage effect of Trapper Belt to make it a viable alternative to Molten Belt. Maybe even boosting Talisman of Pyromaniac or Brooch of Purifying Flames would help make those trinkets competitive. However, I disagree that balance between builds should be achieved by nerfing existing abilities. The balance should always come from adding new gear (which sort of failed for BH this last time) or from buffing weaker gear options to make them more competitive.

[Travesty]

/derailtopic

I think both of you Morgan Davies and LodWig are exceptions. Most players don't have your talent. You do make great points on how to use Mag Trap though.

I think Ozymandius bigger point is that not using smoke screen loses the 30% damage boost and Mag Trap, by itself, doesn't make up for that loss. It's the difference between finishing the trial in time or not for most players at levels above, say, 140ish. The leader boards bear that out.

For the record I'm a card carrying Mag Trapping BH. I love Mag Trap. I just wish it provided the same DPS boost as Smoke Screen so that those of us without as much talent weren't forced to use Smoke Screen at high levels.

As an aside, I think I'll try and craft a Mag Trap BoM, if I ever unlock BoM for BHs.

/stopderailtopic