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Why Talisman of Power more preferred rather than Talisman of the North?

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    Why Talisman of Power more preferred rather than Talisman of the North?

    Top Fire Lily users in the LB uses Talisman of Power, but for this ANB I tried using Talisman of the North for a change. I can't notice nor feel the effect of +5000 power of ToP even in bosses, but in my exp farming, the TotN proc plus Slayer proc makes Kara's HP like a skeleton's health when beamed and thermal shock. Is there a good explanation behind this?
    Last edited by Benedicto; 02-04-2021, 06:44 AM.

    (Caveat: I am a mage noob.)

    (Assumption: the hero level is 70.)

    The damage coefficient from Power is ( 1 + P ∕ 200 ), the one from Frost Damage is ( 1 + F ).

    If these coefficients are just used multiplicatively for the total damage dealt (which I think is always the case), the Talisman of the North is better than the Talisman of Power if:
    ( 26 + P ∕ 200 )( 1 + F ) < ( 1 + P ∕ 200 )( 2 + F )

    that is if
    5000 × F + 4800 < P

    The current maximum value for Power is less than 3700, so the ToTN can't be better than the ToP.

    Maybe what you observe means there is some unknown (to me) effect of the Frost Damage on the Thermal Shock.
    Last edited by LodWig; 02-04-2021, 12:25 PM. Reason: I forgot the Champion Points! There is no absolute maximum Power value!
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    • bojck
      bojck commented
      Editing a comment
      As LodWig said. Just regarding the max power: 8000+ power is doable in a high-level lily build, I had 7700+ last ANB

    • LodWig
      LodWig commented
      Editing a comment
      Stupid me I forgot the Champion Points...

    So if you have more than 8000 power totn is better in simple words?!


    • bojck
      bojck commented
      Editing a comment
      in simple words - no, with 8000 power normally ToP is still better

    Then I dont get it, whats the 26 in the formula?


    • Nhat
      Nhat commented
      Editing a comment
      It's the expansion from the boost of the Talisman of Power:
      - Normal: 1 + P / 200
      - With boost: 1 + ( 5000 + P ) / 200
      => 1 + 5000 / 200 + P / 200
      => 1 + 25 + P / 200
      => 26 + P / 200

    For my exping ToN is much better than ToP. I run 105.
    LodWig have a look.
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    Last edited by Wolf86PL; 02-14-2021, 05:07 PM.


    • LodWig
      LodWig commented
      Editing a comment
      1) In theory, theocrafting works in practice. But in practice...
      2) What are the F and P values for your builds?
      3) What are the abilities you use? How do they benefit from the Frost Damage?

    • bojck
      bojck commented
      Editing a comment
      well... with this damage you don't really care which trinkets you use at 105 With two regular trinkets with +frost you'll still obliterate everything, including Kara...

    • kurtcabage
      kurtcabage commented
      Editing a comment
      tbh in 105, i don't even need ToP nor ToN, kara is weak at this level

    better to test your lily on TL145 or TL150 to know which is better between ToP or ToN
    highest lily user on discord is mahara which is current on TL152 LB and he use ToP

    tbh we can't rely on TL105 to test ToP and ToN, since kara is weak at this level.
    Guide :


      i have 2 Shield warrior build

      the first purely CR/CD. Manage (at the moment) Trial 139
      the 2nd; after finishin this War Supply event will fully made it into this "Fire-Lilly Talisman of Power thing"

      "strictly based on our old Master: Arionthe Flower Protector build (i dont want to add or discard anythin)"

      will try the best of my ability: how high can it go at trials eh
      i would run naked to town if my fire-lilly SW beat my CR/CD build. hahahaha
      this is fun
      thank you

      opps; i made a grave mistake

      the Flower protector build does not used "talisman of Power". It recommended "Talisman of Doom". So i have to to used talisman of doom i'm afraid. (strictly by the book eh)
      Last edited by TheExorcist; 02-15-2021, 05:43 AM.
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