Demolitionist Battlegear

[LodWig]

Hmm.. can you show how you see this on TA???

Go to the Training Grounds (obviously), remove weapons, equip a Fire Lily, do some Explosive Shots, note the average AoE damage (or the total damage and the number of explosions, for a slightly more accurate result); then equip the Tracer Ammo passive, raise the stack to maximum (10 with a Havoc Hood, you can equip one for a bigger difference between additive and multiplicative stacks), stop attacking, reset the damage sheet, before stacks vanishes do some Explosive Shots, note the average AoE damage, conclude.

The key parts are: a constant number of TA stacks, no weapon for no variations in base damage, a Fire Lily for no critical hits. If you don't have a Fire Lily, repeatedly try to do one explosion only (with zero and max TA stacks) so you can separate regular and critical hits.

I must say that you have it easy: when I concluded (months ago) on the multiplicative nature of Tracer Ammo stacks, I had no Fire Lilly and the damage for Explosive Shot was given as a whole (not separated between hit and explosion as it is now). I had to record an auto-attack session with me repeatedly opening and closing the stat sheet as fast as I could, and review the recording frame by frame to see the damage increases, then knowing the theoretical damages of the hit and the explosion, try to see if there was a critical hit or not. (To complicate matters: hit and explosion can critically hit independently; and the hit can add a stack, which is in effect if the hit triggers an explosion. On the other hand, the stack added by an explosion is not used for itself.)

[...] Lethal Shot bonus 250% dmg [...]

The bonus damage is 100% per stacks, additive, and it's added damage: with five bombs, the damage of Lethal Shot is multiplied by 6.

Note that the same bonus is obtained by wearing the Assassin's Belt only, or only two Demolitionist armor pieces. (There is no gain in wearing both.)

[LodWig]

Confirmed, using a Lily and no pistols, to have constant damage: demo2 grants demo6 bonus. It's also true of the Assassin's belt.

Wearing both demo2 and an Assassin's belt grants nothing.

[Skyla]

Thanks, I thought so. Cool for now I guess lol guess I can stop grinding so hard for my last 2pcs and just pretend haha

[Reaucat]

Hmm.. can you show how you see this on TA??? I just checked and both the description AND dmg confirm that its additive within itself. Adds 7% to dmg per stack. 35% total (so count is additive).

Dmg tested using explosive shot, no gear except a green gun, no skills except tracer.
"Explosive shot" portion didnt change;
"explosion shot aoe" went from 608k from 50 attacks to 823k from 50 attacks. This is almost exactly 35%. if it was multiplicative total should have been closer to 40%, for a total around 850k.

[Reaucat]

Confirmed that lethal shot gets same bonus dmg from both 4pc AND 2pc demo set, as from full 6pc.

Average dmg per cast when testing roughly 200 attacks: 1.3m without stickys, 8m with max stickys. In all 3 tests: 2,4, 6pcc the results were thbasically ientical.

[Skyla]

Someone with a full set needs to check this but I think sticky bombs are giving the lethal shot bonus without having 6pcs of the set. I've only got 4/6 and I can see a big difference between lethal shot when I have sticky bombs active as opposed to when I don't. Hate to point it out but I hate to get used to the set and then have it change because they take out all the bugs lol

[LodWig]

1) About the Molten belt: I think it's working as intended... Osmosis and Tracer Ammo stacks also are multiplicative with themselves (not showing on TA, but true). The belt was nerfed by reducing the percentage per stack, if the multiplicative aspect were a bug it would have been fixed.

2) One way to see the bombs are detonating continuously in Trials is by checking the Sticky Bomb damage while fighting the boss. With enough Molten Armor stacks, it shows.

[Reaucat]

Np at all !
And yeah agreed, the molten belt especially concerns me. LodWig found that Molten Belt's bonus is multiplicative within itself, so each stack gives slightly more bonus dmg than the previous one. (Max bonus dmg is 14,557.5% at 1000 stacks). I'm 99% certain that this isn't working as intended: the bonus is supposed to only be additive within itself and multiplicative with other bonuses. This is the way they have approached all the other stats to date, and is also the way the description of the belt is written.

EDIT: The main reason i think it's not right is because after 300 stacks you're approaching 500% ALL dmg multiplier....and it only takes like 2 minutes to stack that.... Nothing can beat this belt... ever?

[Skyla]

Ok I get you now. That makes more sense. Sorry for having you dumb it down for me lol
Feels like an unintended effect tbh, idk if I wanna get used to it knowing there's a hotfix coming haha

[Reaucat]

I think i see where you're going, let me try to present my findings in a better way:
1) Training ground CAST number is obviously not reporting the number correctly, however it DOES report dmg.
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2) when looking at the "sticky bomb" dmg in training grounds, you see that the number stays fixed until 1 of 2 things happens: the timer expires (causing the 5 sticky bombs to explode), OR the timer is reset. You can confirm this by noting the total dmg from sticky bombs, attacking using lethal shot for a few seconds, noting that the dmg from sticky bombs has NOT changed, then re-setting the timer (before it expires), and immediately seeing that the damage from sticky bombs has gone up.
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3) The 4pc trigger is only for when the mobs dies, which is why it doesn't activate during boss fights, unless you lure him to smaller mobs (might be a viable strategy).
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4) Which makes me think that training ground is a good stand-in for only the boss fight portion of the trial, since in both cases you don't have mobs dying around it and triggering additional dmg.

EDIT: Neither of this changes the end result: Lethal Shot bonus 250% dmg is the main reason (so far) that the Demo 6pc set can kill bosses. We simply disagree on how the sticky bombs work, which is verifiable with direct observation.

[Skyla]

Besides, if it's detonating each time you apply it, why is it not triggering the 4pc bonus effect and in turn applying bombs/taking out the whole mob.?

[Skyla]

What I was commenting on was the sticky bomb theory, not the 6pc bonus. We're on the same page. What I'm saying is, I don't see that sticky bomb is detonating upon timer resetting like the post that was linked is implying. Furthermore, to try and test sticky bomb in training grounds is faulty seeing as the info is bugged. By which I mean that sticky bomb is showing dmg but no cast, which implies a bug. Not to mention sticky bomb clearly states that it detonates upon enemy death or timer expiration, it is not detonating each time it's timer resets, the explosion seen when the timer resets is the explosive shot detonating and applying the sticky bomb. The damage shown in training grounds is not comparable to the damage from an actual sticky bomb explosion. Probably because of the non death factor of the training grounds. Either way there's hardly enough info there to make a definite decision imo.
My comment is, if you aren't stacking 5 sticky bombs and then waiting for the timer to expire (during boss fight) then you never get a sticky bomb explosion.
The comment I'm reading is that you don't need to wait till the timer expires and you will get sticky bomb explosions.. I'm not seeing this. I'm seeing it perform as the description dictates.

[Reaucat]

Skyla
For sure a full set Demo derives more dmg from lethal shot than stickys. Mine and LodWig's comments were just making the difference between waiting for stickys to explode and re-setting their timer when using explosive continuosly.

Since the damage from Lethal Shot is maxed only after 5 stickys, it might be interesting to test If the exploding sticjys do enough dmg to offset the slight decrease in dps while you're re-applying them with explosive shot.

[Skyla]

Not getting same results. Maybe it's because he tested the belt? Not the set. Dunno. Works better for me the way it's designed, stack five sticky bombs, switch to lethal shot...blah blah
But I'll give his assumption a shot, since he's "the numbers guy" lol

[LodWig]

See here