Not fun anymore.

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

There needs to be conversations over the matters.

There may be, when events actually start to come to fruition.

[trackz]

if pvp comes that will need a complete new system.
like the game mechanics are as of now, imo, this game not suited for a pvp mode. fights will be like automated sequences, sure u can trigger skills, cast spells but that wont make a big different. it will be just about whose stats are more op.

a pvp needs something what makes the player skill important. a.e. to dodge attacks/avoid dmg with your skill to control your hero. eternium dont have this so i dont think a pvp mode is really needed.
a multiplayer tho would be great, or multiplayer events etc.

[giecomo]

yeah I feel the rewards shouldn't be something that cannot be found or obtained anywhere else. not if balanced PvP is a goal to work towards.

[BAgate]

What you say makes sense, but what we are objecting to isn't steady advancement that puts older players in better position. It is that older players are put in a better position, then events happen, the older players get all the good rewards and so get that much better, the newer players can't catch up, so the older players win the next event, etc, etc. And so the older players have not only more skill.experience at playing, and a few more CL from playing longer, but now also have a set of better items which no one else can match. And so you create the very system the changes in experience were designed to avoid.

Now if the rewards for winning events were cosmetic, say a different color scheme or a visible aura or some such, or things that could be found in time (like gold, gems, gemstones, high stat legendary set items, etc) then it wouldn't be so bad.

[adjacentengels]

I guess I'm in the minority here; if someone has put in two years into the game, I think they should absolutely dominate someone who had only played one month. That goes for their experience and their gear and their characters' development (measured as CL for this game). There should be no way for a newbie to walk in and immediately have a shot at winning a ladder or pvp against the top tier players.

The recent improvements to shorten the curve for gaining CL, farming gear, and farming gems gives newer players an advantage where 2-3 months of heavy play will get you as much as a year or more in the old system, so they've already closed the gap substantially. But having put in the time to learn the game well and gain the rewards of the game should not be thrown away. An experienced player will always, and in my opinion, should always have an advantage over a newbie.

As long as they continue to play consistently they should always be at the top of the curve in all aspects of the game. If a new player pushes harder than the experience player then they will start gaining ground. If the old player starts slacking off then a youngster will catch up and eventually pass them. But as long as the experienced player continues pushing as hard as anyone trying to catch them, they should stay in the lead, get the top rewards, etc.

Edit: Just for the record, this is not an endorsement of the events or reward system described by Travis, just rebutting the comments regarding newbies vs experienced players.

[RiseOfAbyss]

How would that structure (if that's what they end up going with) give old timers an edge? I didn't say that specific set pieces would only be available for specific events. Everyone will get a chance to complete their sets -- they'll just have to wait for an event to come back around if they're missing a piece.

There needs to be conversations over the matters. Asking your base community isn't bad, it will only help you. Personally, I feel like I'm in the dark regarding the upcoming updates. That's not necessarily bad, who cares about which state I am at, but the thing is that you need my opinion - from the player's perspective in order to give you some ideas, etc. And trust me, I've got ideas which could improve, but then again, I'm not the only one, am I?

[BAgate]

My god, I said something that people actually understood...

[giecomo]

How would that structure (if that's what they end up going with) give old timers an edge? I didn't say that specific set pieces would only be available for specific events. Everyone will get a chance to complete their sets -- they'll just have to wait for an event to come back around if they're missing a piece.

that is to say, people who choose to participate in the events and win prizes will have an insurmountable advantage over say, newcomers or people who didn't want to or didn't have time to participate in the events when PvP comes around

[Rytrik]

How would that structure (if that's what they end up going with) give old timers an edge? I didn't say that specific set pieces would only be available for specific events. Everyone will get a chance to complete their sets -- they'll just have to wait for an event to come back around if they're missing a piece.

because if Old Timers keep winning the events, since experience compounds over time, and they have better than legendary items, those amazing pieces will translate into a slight Edge during the off-event time... which will keep compounding. That's the main problem with putting your excellent excellent items in places where somebody who has extra experience can continuously dominate.

Humus said it right - the new player will continuously be behind, unless they happen to be a unicorn new player who can magically dominate 2 yr+ experience players in the events, and start winning season rewards away from Vets. Especially if the season rewards are really great.

In a race to build & deck out a new character for an event, who do you think will win: someone who has played this game for 1-6 months, or someone who has played for 2 years? As someone who's won numerous gaming speed leveling races, even a bit of extra game knowledge can make a massive difference to the outcome. A lot of extra game knowledge is a game changer.

[Humus]

How would that structure (if that's what they end up going with) give old timers an edge? I didn't say that specific set pieces would only be available for specific events. Everyone will get a chance to complete their sets -- they'll just have to wait for an event to come back around if they're missing a piece.

I think their point is if I've been here for two years and have all the special pieces from events I have a huge advantage over the new player who's been here for 1 month and doesn't have any season rewards.

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

How would that structure (if that's what they end up going with) give old timers an edge? I didn't say that specific set pieces would only be available for specific events. Everyone will get a chance to complete their sets -- they'll just have to wait for an event to come back around if they're missing a piece.

[Humus]

And will there be extra character slots, or will we have to delete someone to participate?

Devs have said they don't plan on forcing players to delete heroes, that they plan on adding slots.

[BAgate]

I thought you didn't want old timers to dominate. Isn't that the point of the experience changes? So now you give a big edge to event players that can't be duplicated any other way. What's the difference? Things just keep getting worse...

And will there be extra character slots, or will we have to delete someone to participate?

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

What do you mean by 'events'?

What's currently being discussed is something similar to a short "season" in D3. Everyone participating starts with a fresh hero and races to build it up and top the LBs. Top 3 get an uber prize (including something with a new level of rarity better than legendary), ranks 4-10 get a different prize, ranks 11-100 get a prize, etc. When all is said and done, you keep the hero you built. Rewards may even include set items that can only be obtained through events. In order to complete the set, you'll have to participate in multiple events.

[BAgate]

Not everyone has a competitive spirit. That's alright. But the game used to be the same when this guy started playing, he knew it all over when he was 400 CL, 700, 1200, 1500. So the question is, what actually drove him to go over all that? That's what he has to think of. Because that's what he should be continue playing for. Well, if he likes it. If he doesn't, then obviously he should stop. Diablo is the same thing.

And your last sentence captures the problem, because it is so very wrong. D2 was almost infinitely replayable. Not only was it more complex with a significantly better items system, but significant rewards lasted for longer (each level mattered far more than another CL). But its biggest advantage was 7 classes, each of which could be played in different ways. Bored of playing a Barbarian tank? Play a Necomancer summoner. Or a Necromancer warlock. Or a Necromancer witch. Or an Assassin trapper. Or even a Barbarian battlemage. Or. Or. Or. Each a fundamentally different playstyle that would give you a different experience. Hell, 5 years in I was still finding new ways to play. With Eternium everything plays the same, so after a while you either like the grind or get bored.