A RPG element

[Rytrik]

Maybe he wants the game to be harder for the player? One big hit = low damage = low LOH = dead!

There needs to be a payoff for the game being harder. Just having it be harder for the sake of harder is generally not a draw for players.

[GrauGeist]

Perhaps I come from a different mentality around gaming... I'm just not seeing the logic in nerfing the player's damage when they're low health.

Maybe he wants the game to be harder for the player? One big hit = low damage = low LOH = dead!

[BAgate]

Perhaps I come from a different mentality around gaming... I'm just not seeing the logic in nerfing the player's damage when they're low health. There's no benefit NOW to being at low health (besides in the Elban fight), and it would cause even more frustration in players who might take some damage. All of a sudden, your damage goes down SIGNIFICANTLY and you're struggling to LoH or pot/apple your way back up to 100% hp. There goes your trial.

There are other games which do it the opposite: by staying at a lower HP level, your damage goes UP, or you gain extra skills. That way there's a payoff for being at the lower health: You CAN do more damage... but on the other side of it, you might die quickly. It's a gamble. It's similar to Elban's assassinate. You can dodge it and do regular damage, and not take bleed damage, or you can eat it and gain 5% extra damage per assassinate, but you take bleed damage for the rest of the fight. You choose.

Actually, this would create a similar dynamic to the second scenario you point out. Right now the prevailing model is to have just enough HP to avoid one shot and then enough LoH to heal yourself to full health in an instant. More points in vitality/armor are useless, more points in power/haste/etc are always good. If Arionthe's proposal was adopted it would create a situation where more points in health would increase damage by reducing the damage penalty for being at low health, creating more than one way to build. You can create a tank that does constant lower damage or a glass cannon that does high initial damage but watches it plummet whenever you're hit until you heal. Tweak the heal mechanism and you get all kinds of possibilities.

[Arionthe]

You don't even play a mage. Why are you laying out your vision for a class that you don't play?

That's because, despite often repeated accusations about me, I'm not really a shrill for SW. In fact I'm pretty class agnostic. I always liked RPG type of games. All my eterninum toons used random name generator except for my mage. I have a soft spot for it. Besides I just want classes to be distinct and different.

[Rytrik]

Well Primus, that is only because I haven't really laid out my visions for mage in its entirety. To be honest I find it odd that a highly specialized, many years in the training magic wielder confronts the hordes of Eternium in much the same way as a brutish warrior. By that I meant using flesh and blood as means of defense.

You don't even play a mage. Why are you laying out your vision for a class that you don't play?

[Arionthe]

So much this,besides this idea increases the gap between PC and mobile,as players on mobile will find it more difficult then players on PC to avoid getting hit.The precision advantage of PC will get amplified due to this by many times.And this mechanic mostly favors boring builds and renders many current builds unusable.

Well Primus, that is only because I haven't really laid out my visions for mage in its entirety. To be honest I find it odd that a highly specialized, many years in the training magic wielder confronts the hordes of Eternium in much the same way as a brutish warrior. By that I meant using flesh and blood as means of defense.

So the Devs are changing Arcane Reflection. May I suggest the following skill as an replacement. Also an innate class specific skill.

Innate Class specific skill: Mystic Shield
Mage has the innate ability to create a damage absorbing shield around him/herself (PC baby).
Stats: 100% HP shield when initialized, max 150% HP, Recovery stats feed into the shield absorbing power, duration 6 secs. CD 30secs If shield collapses, mage takes 50% HP damage as an arcane energy feedback.
Any shield proc will add 10% HP to shield strength while refreshing the duration.

Arcane Shield: to replace Arcane Reflection
Stats: Years of learning has allowed you to enhance the strength and power of Mystic Shield, 150% HP at start, Max 300%HP, any shield proc adds 20% HP to shield HP, duration 8 secs.

With this powerful defense mechanism in place, a mage should really never worry about blocking a mundane arrow or two. Besides this feels more like a powerful magic user.

[Arionthe]

Perhaps I come from a different mentality around gaming... I'm just not seeing the logic in nerfing the player's damage when they're low health. There's no benefit NOW to being at low health (besides in the Elban fight), and it would cause even more frustration in players who might take some damage. All of a sudden, your damage goes down SIGNIFICANTLY and you're struggling to LoH or pot/apple your way back up to 100% hp. There goes your trial.

There are other games which do it the opposite: by staying at a lower HP level, your damage goes UP, or you gain extra skills. That way there's a payoff for being at the lower health: You CAN do more damage... but on the other side of it, you might die quickly. It's a gamble. It's similar to Elban's assassinate. You can dodge it and do regular damage, and not take bleed damage, or you can eat it and gain 5% extra damage per assassinate, but you take bleed damage for the rest of the fight. You choose.

I actually see your point. It's always a battle between realism and playability. That's probably a reason why such a system is so rarely seen in any RPG.

The goal of my suggestion is not to foster untold player frustration. But rather re-introduce strategic retreat as a gaming element. So I'm low on health and I'm not as effective as I like to be, what do I do? You can keep banging your head and stand your ground only to be grinded down by the coming waves of mobs. Or remember the saying Discretion is the better part of valor.

anyway also makes healing skills play a more prominent role in the game. Again all my suggestions seem whacky in isolation. But they are meant to be taken together. I already laid out what my end goals are. These suggestions are just some small building blocks towards that.

[Primus]

Perhaps I come from a different mentality around gaming... I'm just not seeing the logic in nerfing the player's damage when they're low health. There's no benefit NOW to being at low health (besides in the Elban fight), and it would cause even more frustration in players who might take some damage. All of a sudden, your damage goes down SIGNIFICANTLY and you're struggling to LoH or pot/apple your way back up to 100% hp. There goes your trial.

There are other games which do it the opposite: by staying at a lower HP level, your damage goes UP, or you gain extra skills. That way there's a payoff for being at the lower health: You CAN do more damage... but on the other side of it, you might die quickly. It's a gamble. It's similar to Elban's assassinate. You can dodge it and do regular damage, and not take bleed damage, or you can eat it and gain 5% extra damage per assassinate, but you take bleed damage for the rest of the fight. You choose.

So much this,besides this idea increases the gap between PC and mobile,as players on mobile will find it more difficult then players on PC to avoid getting hit.The precision advantage of PC will get amplified due to this by many times.And this mechanic mostly favors boring builds and renders many current builds unusable.

[Arionthe]

As always, I support Arionthe's ideas 1000%.

Thanks brother, with your vote.. oh wait we are not in an election... But a good fight is always worth fighting even if a losing cause.

[Arionthe]

It annoys me that you capitalized power and ability rate but not critical rating Arionthe :/

Congratz on 116 btw. Yep I was doing that to get a rise out of BHers.. but caught a Mage instead. haha

[Rytrik]

Perhaps I come from a different mentality around gaming... I'm just not seeing the logic in nerfing the player's damage when they're low health. There's no benefit NOW to being at low health (besides in the Elban fight), and it would cause even more frustration in players who might take some damage. All of a sudden, your damage goes down SIGNIFICANTLY and you're struggling to LoH or pot/apple your way back up to 100% hp. There goes your trial.

There are other games which do it the opposite: by staying at a lower HP level, your damage goes UP, or you gain extra skills. That way there's a payoff for being at the lower health: You CAN do more damage... but on the other side of it, you might die quickly. It's a gamble. It's similar to Elban's assassinate. You can dodge it and do regular damage, and not take bleed damage, or you can eat it and gain 5% extra damage per assassinate, but you take bleed damage for the rest of the fight. You choose.

[BAgate]

As always, I support Arionthe's ideas 1000%.

[Purple Potato]

It annoys me that you capitalized power and ability rate but not critical rating Arionthe :/

[Arionthe]

A further enhancement to this idea is this:

Instead of raw, across the board DPS reduction as proposed in the first post. I think a more class specific drawback system for being in poor health is more distinctive and creates more diversity.

For Warrior

If HP is at 100% (perfect health, probably with help of shield bubble) at the beginning of that half second, POWER stat is calculated at 110%
If HP is >75% at the beginning of that half second, POWER is calculated at 100%.
If HP is >50% at the beginning of that half second, POWER is calculated at 90%
if HP is >25% at the beginning of that half second, POWER is calculated at 80%
if HP is <25% at the beginning of that half second, POWER is calculated at 60%

For BH

If HP is at 100% (perfect health, probably with help of shield bubble) at the beginning of that half second, Critical Rating is calculated at 125%
If HP is >75% at the beginning of that half second, Critical Rating is calculated at 100%.
If HP is >50% at the beginning of that half second, Critical Rating is calculated at 80%
if HP is >25% at the beginning of that half second, Critical Rating is calculated at 60%
if HP is <25% at the beginning of that half second, Critical Rating is calculated at 30%

For Mage

If HP is at 100% (perfect health, probably with help of shield bubble) at the beginning of that half second, Ability Rate is calculated at 110%
If HP is >75% at the beginning of that half second, ABILITY RATE is calculated at 100%.
If HP is >50% at the beginning of that half second, ABILITY RATE is calculated at 80%
if HP is >25% at the beginning of that half second, ABILITY RATE is calculated at 60%
if HP is <25% at the beginning of that half second, ABILITY RATE is calculated at 30%

Yep, BH will not be criting, Mage will have to wait for those spells to become available again. Warriors will just suck more

[GrauGeist]

You are right. So balancing it will be the key. I'm looking for more distinctness amongst classes. For a mage, again just thinking out loud here, I think a damage shield is more critical. HP should be that last line of defense and rarely breached. So imagine skills/passives that enhance the shield bubble.

I would rock a Tome or Staff with that ability.