Trials of Valor Expansion

[kecimis]

IS it just me or since the new update Warriors Whirlwhind doesnt apply life on hit anymore? I am not sure if it did before the update, but even on lefendary I had never a problem of dying in the middle of my WW.

Maybe more expereinced players know if life on hit was applied to WW?
Thanks.

[Purplexity]

IS it just me or since the new update Warriors Whirlwhind doesnt apply life on hit anymore? I am not sure if it did before the update, but even on lefendary I had never a problem of dying in the middle of my WW.

Maybe more expereinced players know if life on hit was applied to WW?
Thanks.

WW has never provided life on hit. It did seem like health regen got a bonus along with the 30% damage reduction while WW was active before the update so that might be what you are seeing.

[Chaerimasu]

I think they rescaled stats for all the gears. For example newly looted Lv45 gear give as much stats as the old Lv60 gears.

[miguce]

I am a new player. Lvl 70 warrior with CL near triple digits. This is my view and may clash with other players and may be flat out wrong in some matters but i will give it a shot. This may come out as a bit offensive too. Apologies if thats the case but i mean all this in a good way.

Firstly, to all those talking about PVP(i think most are saying PVP instead of the leaderboards) as a reason for the nerf. I havent seen an official source talk about it. Nerfing for something thats far away and probably not gonna be implemented anytime soon is even worse but that isnt the case here.

1. Critical Rating reduction
We think that scoring a critical hit is more fun if it happens less often than a normal hit. If you have a 70% critical chance then normal hits start feeling like critical misses.
As such we think that a 20% - 40% critical hit chance is more balanced and fun.

1.Ok. But how much is needed for that much? I cant get my CR value high enough to calculate it well but i can already see the diminishing returns on CR before i even break 20% crit rate. 1200CR is 20%. How much is 40% then? A Champion can get max 500CR from CP! Thats too low to be any use. You cant ignore other stats and just focus on CR and CD. At the moment crit is dead. And so is skills like Duelist that rely on CR(not to mention that Blade Fury is bugged)

Thank you for all the feedback.
2. Champions Level bonus reduction
The Power and Attack Speed bonuses were scaling the damage by a 5x factor in high CL levels, creating a huge discrepancy between new players and veterans.
That discrepancy in power will still exist, but it won't be that big.
We care about balance because very soon we'll introduce Trial of Valor leaderboards, and we want new players to have a fair chance to compete there.

2. I cant agree with this. I am a new player. But i have played alot of games. Many at the top level. And never have i seen a developer nerf something thats been part of the game for such a long time so hard. This more than a 50% nerf to CL! Many have worked hard to raise it and you are alienating the older and your loyal player base for potential new players?! As i said, i am a new player. Not even 2 weeks old. Let me tell you that i dont feel a desire to put time into a game that doesn't reward it. Veterans are called that for a reason! Whats to say that you wont change the game in the future like this again? And your reason for doing such a thing is unacceptable for me!

A leaderboard?! You seriously doing this for a leaderboard when a leaderboard can be done without nerfing CL and trivializing the effort of your, i say it again LOYAL PLAYER BASE to make the game more friendly(yeah right)
for new players. Lets make it clear that the game lacks content. The trails add some replayability and content to the game instead of a grind fest. This makes this decision even worse when you nerf CL. Being OP was part of the game. You could change your CL whenever you want to make it harder.

And here comes the issue with using leaderboard as an excuse. CP can be reset for free. Change the trails abit. Make it so that you cant enter without CP evenl added in the 3 sections offense, defense, utility (prevent stacking them in one section for the same CL output). The unadded CP shouldn't count. So if you added 10 points in the 3 sections, it will read as 30CL when you finish the level. Rank the trails by CL level. Lower CL you finish the higher you score. Ranking the trails by time(which i think what is you're planning unless the leaderboard is only for how high can you get) is a bad idea cause there will be too much RNG due to the randomness of the maps.
This is just a basic outline on how i envision it.

We did reduce the monsters power to match the hero nerfs, but it seems that we didn't reduce it enough. Ideally, you shouldn't have felt the nerf.

Shouldnt have felt the nerf . Yeah that much nerf to CL and CR cant be felt. Not at all. Not like we depended on LoH to stay alive. LoH on equipment was a bad investment due to the low LoH on them compared to a single CP LoH. This is probably what is causing most of the high endgame CL issues. 1250 LoH max in champion?! This is trivial when you can now get decent LoH from equipments now.

Not to mention the CR nerf. Endgame was stack CR, CD and blast your way through levels as fast you can (movement and attack speed too). With the nerfs to CL attack speed along with this it takes away alot of the players DPS. My losses as a low CL was small but i lost half of my damage in the update. With survivability and damage being reduced drastically, a developer saying that we shouldnt have felt the nerf (ideally ) makes me both sad and a bit angry.

Edit
Things in need of fixing in latest versions (said so before in previous comments)
Broken Dragon. Rest of the bosses i met are easy except this guy. Firebreath deals massive damage sometimes. Most likely a bug. Usually occurs when it falls to about half hp. Almost impossible to beat due to this.

Underground map. Its annoying. Hate the low vision and the labyrinth style. Minimap is inaccurate. Walls not shown correctly which makes this more annoying. Very low quality compared to the other versions. I reroll if i get this map.

[Dyph]

Going to try to be quick here. Turns out the Facebook account I never use anyways has been disabled so my previous posts here can't be tied to me.... (HAH)

First impression: feels to me like a Huge chunk of the update was planned and executed exceptionally well, but small parts feel like knee-jerk reactionary measures to slow down progress and scaling.

I've lurked these forums a lot but I refrain from posting because I generally hold these Dev's, along with several prominent community members in good faith. I don't really think that has changed. My honest thought is that following the admirable content release of bounty hunter, trials, and cosmetic updates that the Dev's saw a finite 'end game' and didn't have the time or resources to create or stretch content to serve high cl players. Changing a handful of values to stretch the content available seems more understandable to me, even if I don't necessarily agree.

We all know the personell limitations in effect, I think 'some' people here are justified in their outrage at loss of time and effort, but I think with a little time playing the new version will curb all but the most extreme cases.

I think the rescaling was a little radical myself, but I'm honestly more excited about item availability and feel like I ha e more reasons to play. Collecting keys until I look at a stack that will take hours to use and 'know' that I won't get anything useful as opposed to running trials and getting flooded with items on various usefulness from level 10 is a significant pro for me.

With a crafting rework and multilayer in the works, if we can find the cl balance as our highly achieved peers progress I think the entire update will be a success.

Still keeping lots of faith, but I haven't seen enough bad to lose any.

[Darkrott]

Does crafting the old gear revamp to the new higher stats, or only the new gear? New Common items are replacing epic gear. Crafting, gotta wait 3hrs though.

[Fenice86]

Thank you for all the feedback.

Thanks to you for coming here, not many games/companies have devs who come by the forums these days.

It seems that the balancing change is the hot issue here. I'll elaborate a bit on why we did it.

1. Critical Rating reduction
We think that scoring a critical hit is more fun if it happens less often than a normal hit. If you have a 70% critical chance then normal hits start feeling like critical misses.
As such we think that a 20% - 40% critical hit chance is more balanced and fun.

I do agree that 70% crit chance would be OP but the nerf you applied was/is just too much, i dropped from 43% to 12,9%, that's... crazy! (39 CL)
Please consider to do something half-way these values... a 50% nerf from original value would have been enough.
20-40% is more balanced and fun, YES, but we can barely pass 10-15% !!!

2. Champions Level bonus reduction
The Power and Attack Speed bonuses were scaling the damage by a 5x factor in high CL levels, creating a huge discrepancy between new players and veterans.
That discrepancy in power will still exist, but it won't be that big.
We care about balance because very soon we'll introduce Trial of Valor leaderboards, and we want new players to have a fair chance to compete there.

As a "kinda new" player i thank you for this but still... you simply went too deep, i think that players "older" than me should have all the rights to be at an advantage, i would be mad if it wasnt so after all my efforts

We did reduce the monsters power to match the hero nerfs, but it seems that we didn't reduce it enough. Ideally, you shouldn't have felt the nerf.

That can be easily fixed but I need a bit more information from you: how do you find the monsters health and damage on normal / heroic / legendary? Compared with how it felt before.

They are stronger. Like... i'd say they feel 50% stronger than before both in dmg and in hp.

-----------------------------------

CONCLUSIONS:

I hope you will act accordingly to your statement and our feedbacks, revert more or less half of the heroes' nerfs or either further nerf monsters by at least 33% (i'd prefer the former solution).
Beside this i'm now lvl 67 and i'm actually stronger than i was on 60 (24k dmg, nerf struck me and i was 21k dmg, now i'm 28k dmg) but still, monsters feel harder to take down, at least consider to restore the Life on Hit nerfs for sustain

Thanks

[Daemonfyre]

Second on Fenice's suggestion of halving the player nerfs. There should be a very noticeable difference between what someone with 1000+CL and someone with none or only 100 or so.

Also, I know it's Super early in the Xpac for this but has anyone gotten ridiculously lucky and seen a Named Item drop in the Trials yet?

[Stefano Frattini]

Second on Fenice's suggestion of halving the player nerfs. There should be a very noticeable difference between what someone with 1000+CL and someone with none or only 100 or so.

I agree on the difference, but I don't think this is the solution to be honest.
I have never seen anyone complaining of the CL system prior to this patch (although I am here since a couple of months) and trying to "close the gap" between new players and old players by nerfing end-game makes old players pissed off (and dropping out).
Honestly seeing that my hours do not contribute much to my Char strength does not motivate me to continue nor compare (on an eventual leaderboard) with fresh players.

The solution for me is deepening the experience of both classes of players (casual and hardcore), three suggestions:

1. leave the CL system as it was before patch
2. Give us the possibility of selecting the level of mobs in Legendary levels and proportional rewards/xp (with much more named, set items)
3. Give us Normal-Heroic and Legendary trial modes, and a ladder for each one of them.

hope it helps the discussion, personally I will take a break if the system stay as it is now.

[Balur]

Is there anyone else that would count the new Hunter Class as being way OP? ... I Just did Elban with her - being level 30 (so Elban was Lev 40 - ten above me). I had just marcus and Eileen with me for their stuns. I did him in next to no time with that "shotgun" skill (scatter shot). The mobs on that level where tough but Elban himself just - well - died?! .. CRAZY! ..

[Eric Vurpillot]

Is it normal that bounty hunter can wear only one shotgun ?

[Balur]

Is it normal that bounty hunter can wear only one shotgun ?

What kind of Shotgun? ... Up to now I saw Pistols only (well some look like shotguns, but they are named "Pistol") - if you are speaking of Pistols, well no that's not normal - she can and should have one in each hand.

[Eric Vurpillot]

ok, so pistol is the name. I'm not english so sorry and yes, i confirm that my bounty hunter can not have 2 pistols, but only one. I have a tome in the other hand

[Hyperize]

Only CL 240 but I do feel bad for the high CL players. It doesn't give me much motivation to put alot of time into the game if they're just going to nerf it this badly.

[Fenice86]

I agree on the difference, but I don't think this is the solution to be honest.
I have never seen anyone complaining of the CL system prior to this patch (although I am here since a couple of months) and trying to "close the gap" between new players and old players by nerfing end-game makes old players pissed off (and dropping out).
Honestly seeing that my hours do not contribute much to my Char strength does not motivate me to continue nor compare (on an eventual leaderboard) with fresh players.

The solution for me is deepening the experience of both classes of players (casual and hardcore), three suggestions:

1. leave the CL system as it was before patch
2. Give us the possibility of selecting the level of mobs in Legendary levels and proportional rewards/xp (with much more named, set items)
3. Give us Normal-Heroic and Legendary trial modes, and a ladder for each one of them.

hope it helps the discussion, personally I will take a break if the system stay as it is now.

Well who would ever complain about being OP in a single player PvE only game? i guess none
Being nerfed by 80%? Hell yeah i would complain about it!

With that being said steam rolling high end game contents was not healthy therefore the nerf was needed (in expectation of leaderboards), just NOT THAT MUCH, an half-way would be the best solution imho
And btw, dividing the upcoming leaderboards in brakets based on CL would be a smart idea (like: No CL, CL 1-100, CL 101-250, CL 251-500, CL 501-1000, CL >1001+) to make it fair for everyone

I agree with your 1 & 2 points and, regarding the 3rd i'd tell you that it is "already there": just climb the trials high enough, monsters go up to lvl 130 (as far as i can see), i'd assume those would be Legendary-Like lvl