Please, stop the ads for paying players.

[tshell]

I can only assume you have not read the entire thread. Can I suggest you start with, at least, my original post, and read it in its entirety?



No, I'm saying it's not relevant. And, please, before you reply again, PLEASE READ MY ORIGINAL POST. Where I said, explicitly, 'charge me twice as much as you earn from ads'.



I agree. But, again, not relevant.

Plenty of other popular games are doing this, because it's a no-brainer. I just find it amazing that there's a couple of people - like you - who are actively saying 'I think MF should earn less than they could, because I would rather waste my time, and advertisers money'. I really like Eternium. I've been playing it for about a week, and I'm at 174.

I'd like to give the developers more money, in exchange for wasting less of my time, but I'm totally astounded by your (and other) comments.

So, OK. You've won. My terribly thought out, and "basically flawed" idea of 'paying more money to support the developers of the game I like' is a complete flop. I will continue wasting my time watching ads for other, competing games - many of which offer 'remove ads, get the rewards' plans, until I get sick of doing so, and try one of these games, and start spending money there, instead.



Yes. How foolish of me.

Edit: I realise, after re-reading I didn't EXACTLY say 'Charge me twice as much' - I said 'If you earn $1, charge me $2, and even with app store cuts, you'll still get more'. I expected better than 2nd grade mathematics, but apparently that was too much for some. So that's what I meant.

Your selective editing cut out the point he was trying to make. You are asking for nearly 30k gems per month, with no ads. That is already an option, except it will cost you around $160. If you want gems without ads, that is already there. If you went cheap gems, buy the monthly pack. If you want 5 gems every few minutes, watch ads. There is no way you'll get that many gems with no effort or without a large amount of cash.

[Humus]

xrobau don't worry I like your suggestion and agree with it
tshell the point isn't that it should be 30k gems per month, the point is you should be able to pay to get gems instead of ads for more than what the devs get from the ads (so you gain time and the devs gain more money), and since most people don't get more than 100 gems per day from ads you would get that same amount of gems. They can cap it if needed to prevent the vpn exploit.

[Chosen]

I'd like to give the developers more money, in exchange for wasting less of my time, but I'm totally astounded by your (and other) comments.

Well, prepare to be pleasantly surprised because I have some good news for you, my friend: if you tap on your gem counter you will be able to buy different gem packages from 1200 to 17000. No ads at all! All the stuff you asked for, are already available for you.

The team have probably done their research before deciding on the pricing of each package and they even added two more ways for getting gems (100/day & 5/ad), to cover a wide range of preferences.

You're welcome!

[tshell]

Chosen nailed it. You've asked to pay money to get gems, without having to watch ads. That function is already there. But even better! You don't even have to click on the box or wait and get them over time. They all come at once! Turn off your ads in the settings and the boxes still drop. They just contain gold or gear now.

So buy a pack. You'll get the gems and never have to watch another ad. Plus you can get extra gold if you feel like clicking those annoying boxes still. If it helps, you can imagine that they pay out gradually over time. You've already said you want to give them your money for gems that aren't hiding behind ads, there's nothing stopping you from doing just that.

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

Just to settle the dust a bit and validate a few points, the DP team hopes to prove this exact point eventually. They don't like ads in their game, but MF does. DP needs to prove to MF that the game can make the same (or more) revenue without ads before they will be removed.

[Buppy]

Considering there aren't any ads on PC, I'd think you already have a fair amount of data on that point. Or maybe most people play multiple platforms.

Speaking for myself, gems seem kind of worthless. I bought a few of the special packs like Stormblade, gun, etc., one month of the daily gems, but everything else just from the freebies playing almost exclusively PC. I'd guess less than 500 gems from ads in more than a year. There's been a few stretches where I didn't even do the daily quests regularly. I have almost everything unlocked on all 5 characters, spent quite a lot in both ANB events, and I'm still sitting at around 11k gems. And I like it this way. Not feeling compelled to buy.

If ads keep the lights on and support the free play, I hope they never go away. Players can already choose not to watch them.

[xrobau]

Just to settle the dust a bit and validate a few points, the DP team hopes to prove this exact point eventually. They don't like ads in their game, but MF does. DP needs to prove to MF that the game can make the same (or more) revenue without ads before they will be removed.

I obviously am not being clear - it's not that it needs to be proven. Go to your apodeal account, look at 'average $ CPM over last 30 days' - let's say that's $10, just to pick a random simple number.

That means that you're earning - on average - 1c every time I watch an ad, right?

So all you need to do is figure out how many ads I watch a day (random number - 20, again, to make it easy), and you need to charge me 20c * 30 per month to cover what you would earn by advertising - say $6 - but, I've actually had a better idea.

To fill those in who don't know how this stuff works (which, appears to be most people in this thread), you (the app) regularly asks the ad network 'Do you have an ad for me?' - the app also provides a bunch of other quasi-anonymous stuff, but basically the ad network says 'Yes. I have an ad, it is worth $x if watched in full, and $x if aborted part way through. Do you want to show it to the user?' (There's actually a bunch more variables and settings, but that's the summary - and a lot of that isn't actually controlled by the ap itself, but by the management console, but THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Don't get hung up on bike-shedding)

This triggers the 'Do you want to watch an ad?' event - in Eternium, it's the box that drops. If the user picks the box up, and selects yes, then the ad network plays the ad, and the app developer gets their 1c or whatever. You (the app) can also send back an authoritative no (which would be if you pick the box up, and say 'no'). Stats are logged on this at the ad server, too.

So what I'm proposing is that when the box drops, the app sends back an authoritative no, but still gives the reward. It's been a couple of years since I've done this stuff, so I'm not sure if you can send back a REASON for the no, but, that's more for the devs and their stats.

But here's the better idea, and it requires almost no extra code - Use the 'active playtime' clock that is used in the timed-XP-boosts, or gold boosts or whatever. Sell a '1 week playtime' pass - 168 hours of playtime.

Using my (probably bogus) numbers of 1 ad every 2 minutes of playtime (90+30 secs), and 10,080 minutes in a week, that means that I would watch about 5000 ads in a week of playtime (which would probably be like a month of CALENDAR time) - and you'd earn about $50 from me, at $10 CPM.

I'm not sure if I'd be willing to pay $50 for a month without ads but still getting the rewards.

However, my numbers are hugely overestimated - if my rough (and what I feel is a realistic) CPM of $1 is correct, that means you only need to charge $5 to get the same amount as ads. I AM sure that I'd pay $10 for a month without ads, with still getting the rewards, and you guys still get double your money you'd get through ads.

Funnily enough, $10 is pretty much what most apps are charging, too, so it seems to be the sweet spot.

[Buppy]

I obviously am not being clear - ...

It's not that you're not being clear, it's that your suggestion doesn't make any sense.

Ad gems are not special. They're no different than any other gems. Focusing on the revenue they get from ads, or to be more specific, how cheaply they "sell" gems via ads, is irrelevant. Even if they give you what you want they would still make more by leaving the ads enabled. There would be people willing to buy the package, and also watch ads for even more gems.

Say they sell a 1 month sub, buy it and every time a box drops in game you get 5 gems. Exactly what you want, right? All the ad gems, none of ad watching. But if they do that, they can also leave the boxes there for those that choose to watch the ads and get another 5 gems.

You can already choose to opt out of seeing ads. You can already choose to buy gems. What you are actually asking for is the ability to buy gems at a far cheaper rate, but making the amount dependent (at least in part) on active play time. To properly account for it you would need to factor not only lost ad revenue, but more importantly the lost gem sale revenue from providing a cheaper purchase option.

[xrobau]

There would be people willing to buy the package, and also watch ads for even more gems.

No, that wouldn't be possible. I feel like there is some language issue here, and I don't know how to make myself any clearer.

What you are actually asking for is the ability to buy gems at a far cheaper rate, but making the amount dependent (at least in part) on active play time.

Which is *exactly* what we are doing now, by watching ads. We are paying with our time, rather than money. I was suggesting we just cut out the middle man.

HOWEVER. It looks like my point is moot. I have been playing idly while I build some packages, and I haven't seen an ad in 15 minutes of playtime. Either the ad network is broken (unlikely, but possible!), or someone's gone into the Ad dashboard and fiddled with the knobs.

[Buppy]

No, that wouldn't be possible. I feel like there is some language issue here, and I don't know how to make myself any clearer.



Which is *exactly* what we are doing now, by watching ads. We are paying with our time, rather than money. I was suggesting we just cut out the middle man.

HOWEVER. It looks like my point is moot. I have been playing idly while I build some packages, and I haven't seen an ad in 15 minutes of playtime. Either the ad network is broken (unlikely, but possible!), or someone's gone into the Ad dashboard and fiddled with the knobs.

You're the one not understanding. I know your proposal was an either/or system. I was suggesting an alternate where they give you exactly what you're asking for, but also leave the decision to "disable" the ads up to you. I was trying to illustrate that your request really has nothing to do with ads.

As has been repeatedly stated, you already have the ability to turn off the ads. So whether you realize it or not, what you are really asking for is gems that are cheap enough that you're willing to exercise that ability.

What you aren't taking into account is the reason for ads in the first place. Reward ads are a method of monetizing players who are unwilling (or unable) to spend money themselves. No matter how much you sell there are always going to players who want more but are unable/unwilling to spend more money. Some of them will be willing to spend more time. Ads are always a source of revenue you couldn't otherwise get.

The only question is to what degree "free" bonuses cut into normal sales. But that is even more of a concern with "purchased" bonuses, because with those you are dealing exclusively with players who are willing to spend real money.

And I'm pretty sure there's a limit on daily ad boxes.

[xrobau]

You're the one not understanding. I know your proposal was an either/or system.

Exactly.

I was suggesting an alternate where they give you exactly what you're asking for, but also leave the decision to "disable" the ads up to you.

The rest of your post is then about this incorrect alternative. So you're saying that your alternative is bad. I agree. That's a bad idea.

So whether you realize it or not, what you are really asking for is gems that are cheap enough that you're willing to exercise that ability [.. to turn off ads ..]

I like the cost of gems at the moment. Or, what they were, until whatever changed an hour ago changed. I'm happy to spend 30 seconds of my time to earn 5 gems. I just thought it would be a better idea to skip the middle man. However, all you lot that AREN'T accountants and AREN'T marketing specialists have jumped in.

What you aren't taking into account is the reason for ads in the first place. ( deleted all the rest, because it was irrelevant )

And your assumption is incorrect. Go read the second post in this thread.

And I'm pretty sure there's a limit on daily ad boxes.

There isn't - or, probably more correctly, there wasn't. If there was, it was more than 50. I've had 12 ads today (I've been keeping track), but the last one I had was over an hour ago.

Anyway. I'm not going to bother with this thread any more. Obviously SOMEONE has reacted to it, because the ads have vanished. I just hope you guys at MF can realize that 2 * $n is more than $n 8-)

[Nhat]

There isn't - or, probably more correctly, there wasn't. If there was, it was more than 50. I've had 12 ads today (I've been keeping track), but the last one I had was over an hour ago.

Anyway. I'm not going to bother with this thread any more. Obviously SOMEONE has reacted to it, because the ads have vanished. I just hope you guys at MF can realize that 2 * $n is more than $n 8-)

No one have changed anything, as mentioned in my first reply, there is an element of randomness to the number of ads you get while playing - based on my experience over the 8 months so far.

As far as I can tell, the special box itself is part of the monster's drop table, so it must drop first, then it'll depends on whether there is an ad available to show or not, otherwise you'll get a random selection of Gold/Gem/Gear. Basically you've been "lucky" with your box drops, and thus resulted in confirmation bias with the results; there are plenty of other players who have not been so lucky, as evident by the numerous "no ads" posts that I've seen in the forum, and also based on my own game play experience.

Chance is Chance, it takes a very long time to get a proper feel for it, which was why I mentioned that there were times I didn't see any ads at all - you cannot make any concrete assumption as to the number of ad boxes you will see over X hours of play; 10% chance does not mean it'll happen once every 10, each of the 10 times have a separate 10% chance of occurring - it may happen all the time (in your case so far), none (in the cases of some other players), or a mix in between (what I've seen enough to go with...)

I do appreciate the suggestion, once I understood it, but it seems like something you can already do in the game itself, as others have been pointing out. Anyway, hope you're enjoying the game nonetheless and will continue playing, have fun.

[xrobau]

No one have changed anything, as mentioned in my first reply, there is an element of randomness to the number of ads you get while playing - based on my experience over the 8 months so far.

I'm 100% certain someone DID change something. I wasn't keeping track of the contents of the boxes earlier, because they were 99% ads. Since a couple of hours ago, I've had almost zero boxes drop.

Well - at 12:20pm (local AU time) three boxes (all containing Zynga Poker ads, unusually - this is the first time I've seen them) dropped within 90 seconds of each other. That took my count to 15 for the day.

Since then, no ads, and I think only 2 boxes (both with just coins). It's now 1:28pm, and I played for 10 mins or so, around 1:20, to see if it was going to start up again on the hour, but still no boxes

As far as I can tell, the special box itself is part of the monster's drop table, so it must drop first

The change from 'one box being dropped every 90 seconds of play time for the past 3 weeks, continuously' to '3 boxes being dropped over a 3 hour period' can not be hand-waved away as a statistical anomaly, unfortunately. It's pretty obvious that someone's tweaked the knobs at admob (or whichever ad provider these guys are using).

[tshell]

Just to settle the dust a bit and validate a few points, the DP team hopes to prove this exact point eventually. They don't like ads in their game, but MF does. DP needs to prove to MF that the game can make the same (or more) revenue without ads before they will be removed.

I like the way it is now. No one is forced to watch an ad they don't want to watch. It sucks when you're playing a game, then you have to stop and wait for an ad to play, with the only player reward for watching that ad being that you get to resume playing after.

Opt-in ads are just fine. If I know I'll get something I want (gems in this case), then I'll be willing to watch an ad every now and then. But it's up to me, so if my dog needs to go out, I can click an ad box and let it play, and everyone gets what they want. Gems for me, ad revenue for the devs, and a "view" for the ad maker.

It's great for those who can't pay for gems, there is an option to get them other than $$. And you can make a little money off them too, when otherwise they'd be no revenue at all.

[Buppy]

I like the cost of gems at the moment. Or, what they were, until whatever changed an hour ago changed. I'm happy to spend 30 seconds of my time to earn 5 gems. I just thought it would be a better idea to skip the middle man. However, all you lot that AREN'T accountants and AREN'T marketing specialists have jumped in.

There isn't - or, probably more correctly, there wasn't. If there was, it was more than 50. I've had 12 ads today (I've been keeping track), but the last one I had was over an hour ago.

Anyway. I'm not going to bother with this thread any more. Obviously SOMEONE has reacted to it, because the ads have vanished. I just hope you guys at MF can realize that 2 * $n is more than $n...

Yeah, one of those guys. Think you're special. Well color me an optimist but I'll go ahead and try again, and I'll try to make it a bit simpler.

First, there's enough anecdotal evidence around the forums of exactly the type of behavior you're describing to conclude that there is some type of limit. Maybe not a hard set specific limit per account, but there is something that causes the ad well to run dry on occasion. Reports are that using a VPN app can boost the ads back up. I would love it if the devs would disable ads for your account, but I doubt you'd rate that much attention.

Now, on to the meat. To keep it simple I'll stick to your either/or suggestion. You want gems. You can get them by watching ads. You don't like ads. You want to not watch ads. You're willing to pay some amount of money to not watch ads while still getting the gems. With me so far?

You think you can equate the price you should pay for "ad-free gems" to the revenue earned when you watch ads. That's where the trouble starts. That would be true if ads were the only way to get gems, but you can already purchase them. As far as I know there's no limit on purchases. You're just suggesting a slightly different, and far cheaper, method of buying.

But remember, you're not special. Other players also like gems, and don't like ads, and are willing to spend money. Some willing to spend more than you.

Let's say you can get 1000 ads per month. 5000 gems. You wanted to pay $2 to get those gems without watching the ads, reasoning that it's double what the ad revenue would be. But the equation doesn't end there. Remember those other people? Some of them want 5000 ad-free gems and are currently spending $40 for them. Some might spend $20 for 2600, or $20 every three months, or splurge on the $100 pack when they get their Christmas bonus, some who are both spending money and watching ads, or anything in between.

Provide a way to get 5000 gems for $2, or even $10, without the hassle of watching ads, and some of those sales will go away. Lost ad revenue is only part of what you need to account for. I don't know if the current pricing structure is optimal or not. Maybe a cheaper option would increase volume enough to be worthwhile. But the point is it's not as simple an equation as you think.