Epic drops on 95 level Trials

[kurtcabage]

idk what "Metrics" they used to conclude that reducing the drop rate was an improvement.

developer side improvement because player waste more time to grind more to get more epic and salvage to get material to craft better gear -----> yes
player side improvement ? nope hell nope!

Travis is right, it is an improvement. An improvement for generating cash and the metrics will show that and I am sure the fiscal data would also.

[LodWig]

Travis, If "Engagement" is not "Playtime", what is it then? How is it measured?

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

Aside from playtime, engagement refers to a player's desire to come back to the game after they've put it down.

[ZyneLgie]

IMO, they expected the feedbacks to be like this as well as losing some old players in the process. Majority of old players already have lv77 cted items so there's less likely for them to buy legend crates anymore with the exception of those aiming for top spots in anbs. With those things, you could obviously say their target market right now is/are the new players and some old players not fully equipped with 77s. New players, without experiencing those low lvl trials with 3 legend per run, they will feel it's normal. That's what I feel also since im new and haven't got the chance to experience the 3 legend drop per run on low lvl trials. I don't have any say to this update as im a complete f2p player but I feel sad for those who(i think 99%) got affected with these recent updates. I do really hope your queries and disapproval will be heard. Please devs don't roll your eyes with this kind of feedbacks.

On a positive side, everything is like how it is but with a bit more grind.

[Jraggun]

Romme is right. This clearly isn't by accident. Also, the devs have ignored EVERY opportunity to address these long-term concerns here in the forum despite jumping on any chance to correct us when we are wrong about something.

As much as I enjoy this game, it truly does feel like they are trying to push the game in a new direction (which clearly includes leaving a lot of us behind). Several issues have been brought to the devs attention constantly for several months and we continue to be ignored. Not sure what the devs are going for, and I'm beginning not to care.

Even now, a response from one of them could go a long way, and I'm sure they will stay silent. This has become another institution that seems to not care about the people who have supported them and laid the foundation for what the game has become. After being patient for months and months, I have run out of patience.

Shame on MF for having this type of forum while ignoring the most basic opportunity to communicate why such ridiculous, yet substantial changes are being made. They would be better off not ever responding to anyone in the forum. Instead, they selectively choose to ignore these types of posts. -_-

[GKM]

doing gold run just noticed nothing but common and uncommon no blue at all!! I guess the devs are really trying to run off people from this game!!

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

I have combined the 4 or 5 different threads on this topic. Please air your grievances here and stop creating multiple threads on the same topic.

We all know why people create new threads, it brings it to the forefront again. Totally agree that multiple threads on the same issue can be counter productive. However when there is no impact in the 1st place and no acknowledgement, the scatter gun approach can actually be effective. Again however, seems like a futile task as the Devs have never listed in the 3 years I have been playing the game. There are bugs that predate my existence.

The devs are doing what any business would do, trying to generate revenue. They are also probably busy on other projects for larger companies, exploring other personal revenue streams.

[Eternium2020]

Okay, so they dropped the gemstone drop rate from trials. Trials 24+ used to give at least 4 gemstones. We used to receive 4 gemstones from trial level 25. The only variances were getting 5 gemstones when a War Supplies was active or when you were running a currency booster. Now. you only get 3 gemstones from trial level 25. Gemstone drop rate is reduced is confirmed.

Now, calling all gold farmers!

How about the gold drop rate? Has the gold drop rate been reduced? I suspect that it has. I do not gold farm so I do not have a baseline for comparing. Anyone have any feedback on whether or not there was a decrease and, if so, by how much?

I'm so sad i dont even have a perfect ring and necklace since i dont have gold, i dont have gems coz im poor should i jump and end my life. haha

[Cdoc]

Anyone else see their item drops greatly reduced? I do trial runs in level 91 and always get 3 Unique items. Now I get 3 Epic items. What's up?

[CarnivorousDeathParrot.2]

On the topic of business and making money, there's the issue of professionalism.

I work in international bureaucracy which means I could be utterly incompetent for years on while never getting fired, or even still continue to get promoted and cash in larger and larger sums.

But there's such thing as respect for the work itself. For example, finding ways to hire the best staff I can, making sure the Excel files my team uses have the nicest and clearest format, coming up with plans for everyone to meet deadlines that are months ahead, being polite and helpful to people from other departments, staying overtime for all this even with no extra pay. Basically, not wanting people saying "hey, we paid him, he did some lousy incomplete thing, stopped replying emails, and now he's asking for a raise again".
That is lacking here.

[Ozymandius]

I can certainly understand the frustrations expressed on this thread. The primary benefit of running trials to increase salvage materials for crafting has been nerfed, and it is only human nature to respond negatively when an expectation has been taken away. I think that Romme was right about this recent change being made to level the playing field between established and new players, however, we can only "guess" about that since there has not been clear communication of the reason behind the change. One might also ask, why was the drop rate for new players nerfed to begin with? Note to Devs: In the absence of communication, people will always fill in the missing information with their own ideas (many of which will be false).

As an established player, this latest change really only affects my ANB strategy, since I do not craft much at all outside of ANBs these days. How much it affects my ANBs is yet to be seen, but it clearly means a lot more trial grinding will be needed to keep up with the demand for crafting materials. Many players will opt to simply grind more trials, while others will take short cuts and purchase more Legendary Crafting Crates and/or boosters for gold and gemstones. Since the change affects all players equally, I am still hoping to be able to meet my ANB goals, though most players will probably not be able to match their previous ANB performance levels without either dedicating more time or spending more gems.

Having played Eternium for many years now, I have seen similar negative player reactions to almost every change in the game, the most recent ones include the addition of Glory and the removal of ads as a way to earn gems. With each new change there is an uproar from the player community, but then most players quickly move on to finding ways to make the most of the new game environment. IMHO the game still provides pathways for enjoyably playing the game for players who chose not to spend money, and I still enjoy playing and trying out new gear sets and experimenting with the Arena (though I would prefer a true player vs. player platform).

My advice is to enjoy the game, but do not become too attached to the way things are right now. Invariably things will change, and your once mighty Juggernaut Warrior or Apprentice Mage will become a mere relic of days gone by. Such is the nature of life, the world changes and you either adapt or go extinct.

[ZyneLgie]

I had the same thoughts! But yours is better and detailed~

[Romme]

Its good that all players have the same drop rates now, but I think they made an already grindy game even more grindy. I actually think this change widens the already big gap between vets and new players.
If drops are going to give less materials to salvage I would have liked to see reduced rates for crafting or have higher level drops drop more often. Its already hard to get a good drop when there are so many useless stats such as life regen, deflect, ect. I feel like more people would be engaged if they were searching for those godly drops, not being concerned about how much material these drops will salvage into

[Cdoc]

You make some valid points. However, they can only push changes so far. As one who played Diablo for years, I kept adapting to the changes until I finally had enough and quit..as did most other players until the game died. I see the same thing happening with Eternium

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

I can fill in some (not all) of the blanks. Basically, the game was too easy, so multiple changes were made to make it more difficult, including the drop rate of legendary gear. Though it may not feel like it to veteran players, the game is better. Existing players are upset because their cheese got moved, which is understandable, but throwing a fit, threatening to quit, and poisoning the community with toxicity is not going to help the game get any better. If you're unhappy and don't want to play anymore, feel free to move on. We'll all see you when you come back.

[Stusmith50]

Travis, does 'moving the cheese' make the game harder for players who obtain their crafting materials from legendary crates in ANB? Or just harder for the players who obtain their materials for crafting from trial drops?

[100licad]

Not quite right, we have been there Travis, before ANB crafting cost was reduced. Get ready for huge complaints about cheaters on ANB leaderbords as it is not possible to get such a good equip without cheating. Remember that? Wasnt crafting cost reduced to make ANB less reliant on luck and more fair to all players? Now we are back to was it luck or cheating. Also gems spend will be more important now then ever before. With one legendary chest you can make decent exp set. Some classes like Warrior and mage will be able to farm trials high and fast enough with that to craft decent (not like before but decent) push set, but on the other hand these classes can make decent epic lilly farming sets allowing farming high enough trials to actually see legendary drops. However I dont see ANB playing BH without significant gems investment as BH not only clears trials slower but also doesnt have any lilly build cant can beat trials higher than 80 in decent time. Interesting change is books of learning drop nerf. Maybe this will reduce dual class playing during ANB, we will see. Dont get us players wrong Travis, we just want to understand why are these changes considered „for better”. Are they better for new players? No it will make it much more difficult to catch up with old ones, unless you antcipate another big change that will affect all classes meta builds. Also in addition to good old bugs we have for a long time we discovered a lot of new bugs since release of the update. Maybe some of them are „new features” are we didnt get the full release notes although asked for them for very long. Please dont ignore us and please listen to ideas players have to make this game better.

[Cdoc]

I guess that's the answer we have all been waiting for...like it or leave. While I have been waiting for a way to find more MOTs to make the game better...you have done the reverse. It's like Blizzard all over again. I'll probably grind away for a while then lose interest...good job

[bojck]

I have to say I agree with Travis on this one. I find many of the reactions here and on Discord way more negative that the drop rate change warrants, and that doesn't make it too fun to hang around. You know, a lot of us are still enjoying the game...

Regarding the drop rates - in my opinion farming t80 gets too easy at some point: as a mage you just have to run and shatter a few times, and that's it. You don't even need great gear for that. And in the end the returns are very similar to what you get from t100. In that sense stimulating players to farm higher than 80 is a plus IMO. I'd go further here, and suggest removing the hard cap on xp from trials. If xp per trial increases after 103 (with say 0.25% per level), this would be a great incentive to do higher trials. I'm not suggesting to continue the 5% increase per level, as this would be too much. With a 2.5% increase trial 130 would give twice the xp of 100, which seems fair to me.

Thus in ANB progress to 130 will be more gradual throughout the event. Currently in the longer events the best strategy for mages is to do quick t80-90 runs, which can easily mean 800 non-challenging runs in Bronze.

So with the new drop rates, as a mage with good knowledge of the game it will still be perfectly possible to craft 2 77s in Silver/Bronze and even place in top 10 (or 5) without buying a legendary crate (2-3K budget). Farming t100 still has a good yield - check my previous comment here - and there's enough time to do a lot of t100 runs.

Your gear will still lag behind the first few players', as they spend ridiculous amounts of gems. That said, each crate/pack will provide a bigger advantage than before, especially in the shorter events. I'm not a fan of this, as effectively there is 0 chance to actually win an ANB Gold without spending a lot. Luckily, it is possible to win a season with a small budget, and this will continue to be so despite the new drop rates.

[Benedicto]

So why they "killed" warrior again if this will be the case. Warrior farming in ANBs is at par with mages before the update, and we can do dual-classing in the past, so I agree that warriors can still be in the top 10 without spending heavily on gems. If the nerf is needed so it will be "balanced" in PvAI, why not just apply the reductions exclusively on the Arena per class and not gamewide.

[Splendor]

Well, since people are pushing higher trials for the season and anbs anyway... why not? I feel like if the enemies your killing are even stronger you should be gaining more experience from killing them. Also, i think some stronger players could run even a higher trial like 130 in 2:00 or less, so they would be gaining more experience per time spent.

[bojck]

thing is, if 130 gave 5 times the xp of t100, it would be way too good! Currently mages can farm 130 in 2minutes on average with good xp gear (74+, no celestials). This is why I suggested a 2.5% increase per trial - thus xp at 130 will be twice t100.

[Wolf86PL]

Im sure taht when Travis say "feel free to f#ck off" its based on that they have plenty players and tactics for making $ is right. Dont forget that fall from a donky can be harmfull too.

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

I didn't tell anyone to fk off. I kindly requested that when/if people move on, they do so without pissing on everyone's parade on their way out.

[Wolf86PL]

Well people are pissing because they are strongly unhappy with changes, with same old story that's lack of comunication. Telling players that really like or love this game, that spend plenty of time, $, and effort to make this game better is rater below good manners and taste. Game can be the best. If dp and mf have no respect and understangin for players... well good luck with making business, sure It will not be fun.

[ShotDead]

It was a polite way to say "if you're unhappy, **** off. and don't let the door hit you on the way out"

[Zuda]

In another thread I saw Travis comment to a post stating the only change he was aware of was the legendary drop rate in trials. I’d provide a link but I don’t remember where it was. I’m not calling out Travis but I’d been running through the storyline with the ANB warrior I kept and drop rates seemed weird so I waited to post anything until I could do some testing to compare to some prepatch data I had apples to apples.

1. Storyline drops reduced

Drops in the story mode have decreased in both quality and quantity. It seems everything has been knocked down a step in quality in general. It’s not quite so bad as rares are the new epics, but close. Rares become uncommons, uncommons become commons and commons simply vanish. I used to get 1.5-2.5 rows of drops with 4-6 rares per run on this particular level, now I’m getting 1 rare every 3-4 runs and far fewer drops period.

2. Gemstone drop rate questionable

I had 48 runs on 4-54 DMC recorded prior during a war chest event. I don’t know if the war chest bonus with the XG potion bonus is additive or multiplicative. During those runs I averaged 21.9 rough and 10.8 common gemstones per run with a 200% XG potion. Post-patch with a 100% XG potion and no war chest bonus I averaged 4.1 rough and 7.6 common per run over 32 runs. Small sample size, I know.

3. Gold drop rate unchanged in Story

I’ll get back with more as I have time to test.

I, for one, am gonna give the changes a shot. I haven’t liked the changes but I also managed to hit the top 100 for the first time during this past gold event so I’m happy. Granted, I did it without the resource nerf. I think I would’ve managed about the same trial level without the changes, but no way to know if the rank would’ve been enough. ANB play is going to change a lot.

[Travis | Support Mgr.]

I said the only change I could "confirm" (https://forum.makingfun.com/forum/et...892#post189894). I'm fully aware that there were other changes, but I can't confirm what they were.

[Zuda]

Like I said, not calling you out! Not trying to put words in your mouth.

[Nhat]

I can fill in some (not all) of the blanks. Basically, the game was too easy, so multiple changes were made to make it more difficult, including the drop rate of legendary gear.

On this I tend to agree, me being able to get to TL 90 in less than 2 hours of gameplay in the recent Gold ANB kinda hint at how easy it is - and I've always maintained that getting your Celestial Transform should not ever be considered as "easy"... The "easy" part kinda started when the new sets were introduced... again, emphasising that we need a better player testing group...

Existing players are upset because their cheese got moved, which is understandable

Well, we like cheese - some hoard them and some share them, as long as it's not a cheat, then play on.
The main issue was the lack of communication (as always) - yes, there were "talks" via the various "what the?" posts, so the "writing was on the wall", but nothing officially mentioned. Although I suppose you would have got pretty much the same reactions in those "notice" posts as you see here, so that's probably why you (as in DP & MF) don't bother with them...


My only suggestion is what I, and a lot of others, have already mentioned - improve your player engagement & testing!
Get a group of volunteers from amongst the players here and on Discord, give them a separate test account with unlimited resources, and let them loose on the new contents. Then we'll hopefully don't continue with the "new items => game too easy => scale back => 'what the ....?' => new items => game easy again => scale back..." cycles. You need to actually "vet" your volunteers, don't just let anybody join, and then actually give them the time to test and listen to their feedback.

If you're unhappy and don't want to play anymore, feel free to move on. We'll all see you when you come back.

I'll go back to my Dailies now...